Sanders for Pipemaking?

[tigercasual]

Hello Everyone,

I am a pipemaking newbie and wonder if anyone has suggestions for a good powered sander for those of us just starting out?

Cheers,
Danny

[KurtHuhn]

A lot of pipe makers use a fiber-backed resin wheel for rough shaping, and a lot also use belt sanders or grinders. Which you use is up to you and what you're comfortable with since both have benefits and drawbacks.

My main belt grinder for wood is a 2x36 Multi-Tool attached to a 1HP bench grinder. It's overkill for a lot of people, but it works very, very well.
http://www.trick-tools.com/multitool.htm
(the 8"/1HP version)

Off to the side I have a sanding setup that uses a disc with interchangeable pads. It's not for everyone, but it's a good way to get into disc shaping without laying down a lot of cash for a custom tooled french wheel. You can also use Gator-Grit grinding discs (or any 5-6" hook and loop grinding disc) to rough in pipes as well. This is what I use and sell:
http://www.pipecrafter.com/pipes/tools/motor_arbor.php
(requires that you have an electric motor to mount it on)

You could also use one of those combination disc and belt sanders. Delta, Jet, Porter Cable, and a whole slew of brands have a 4x36 belt that's coupled to a 8" disc sander in one tool. I personally have never used one, but I do know people who have, and they describe them as good sanders for wood. I'd also be making some modifications to one if I bought one, to extend the disc arbor out, and to be able to use non-PSA backed resin grinder discs.

[DMI]

For shaping a simple setup like this works well



The flower pot and tumble drier hose connect to a vacuum cleaner to minimise the amount of dust thrown into the air.

David.

[CedarSlayer]

See through disks such as these, http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2080224 ... Discs.aspx are tempting to try. Fairly expensive by my standards, but it is an interesting thought. This does look perfect for anyone one really serious about shaping pipes with and angle grinder!

Bob

[tigercasual]

For shaping a simple setup like this works well



The flower pot and tumble drier hose connect to a vacuum cleaner to minimise the amount of dust thrown into the air.

David.

David,

Can you tell me what sort of wheel you have attached there/what wheels I would need to buy, how long they tend to last, etc?

[tigercasual]

A lot of pipe makers use a fiber-backed resin wheel for rough shaping, and a lot also use belt sanders or grinders. Which you use is up to you and what you're comfortable with since both have benefits and drawbacks.

My main belt grinder for wood is a 2x36 Multi-Tool attached to a 1HP bench grinder. It's overkill for a lot of people, but it works very, very well.
http://www.trick-tools.com/multitool.htm
(the 8"/1HP version)

Off to the side I have a sanding setup that uses a disc with interchangeable pads. It's not for everyone, but it's a good way to get into disc shaping without laying down a lot of cash for a custom tooled french wheel. You can also use Gator-Grit grinding discs (or any 5-6" hook and loop grinding disc) to rough in pipes as well. This is what I use and sell:
http://www.pipecrafter.com/pipes/tools/motor_arbor.php
(requires that you have an electric motor to mount it on)

You could also use one of those combination disc and belt sanders. Delta, Jet, Porter Cable, and a whole slew of brands have a 4x36 belt that's coupled to a 8" disc sander in one tool. I personally have never used one, but I do know people who have, and they describe them as good sanders for wood. I'd also be making some modifications to one if I bought one, to extend the disc arbor out, and to be able to use non-PSA backed resin grinder discs.

Kurt,

Can you recommend a good motor? Also, what is a PSA backed disc?

[DMI]

It's a fairly standard stiff rubber 150mm/6 inch velcro faced backer like this one:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#sanding-discs/=8yldv0 (about half way down)

You can also get them to fit angle grinders.

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tool ... 94323.html

I start off with 50 grit for rough shaping and then go finer before I begin hand shaping and sanding. A good quality disc will do at least three pipes a super cheap one may do one but the edge usually disintegrates.

[FredS]

<SNIP>Also, what is a PSA backed disc?

PSA = Pressure Sensitive Adhesive. You peel off a paper backing to expose the sticky adhesive and then stick it to a backing disc mounted in/on your rotary machine of choice.

[KurtHuhn]

<SNIP>Also, what is a PSA backed disc?

PSA = Pressure Sensitive Adhesive. You peel off a paper backing to expose the sticky adhesive and then stick it to a backing disc mounted in/on your rotary machine of choice.

And they are exceedingly annoying when it comes time to remove them and mount a fresh one. I never could seem to get the thing to come off in one clean piece. We hates them....

Can you recommend a good motor?

Anything from 1/5 to 1/3 horsepower that spins at 1725 or 3450 RPM is going to be good for these purposes, and very inexpensive. 3450 is a good speed for very fast material removal, but useless for anything else, and 1725 is right on the edge for powered finish sanding, but very quick and very usable with practice. Washing machine or clothes dryer motors can be found for short change, and usually have 1/2" or 5/8" shafts - though you sometimes need to get creative with mounting them. Beyond that, make sure they're totally enclosed and fan cooled (TEFC), and are rated for 100% duty cycle since you're going to be running them for extended periods. Oh, and I almost forgot that you want it to spin counterclockwise if you use the arbor system above, or anything that screws onto an arbor. Running it clockwise will unscrew your sanding disc, causing pain and sadness....

Surplus Center sometimes has good motors:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp? ... 0&PageNo=1

And Grizzly always them in stock, though they're a touch more expensive. Their customer service makes it completely worth the added cost, however.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Motor-1 ... 220V/G2527

And troll eBay - your search term should be "motor 1/3". This one is identical to the ones in my shop:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0591477818
A few years ago a guy had a bunch of these, and a group of us were regularly buying his motors as soon as he listed them. These Baldors are the best of the best, and this model comes pre-wired with a switch, so all you have to do is plug it in and go.

[dano_kan]

Harborfreight has some cheap motors. Then you just need to get the 5/8" adapter and disc from Kurt and you're good to go. Very simple wiring and you can add a switch to it so you don't have to unplug.
http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-ge ... otors.html

[kbadkar]

I put my motor on a dead man's switch. It's a foot pedal - press down with your foot, and it's on - take your foot off and it's off. I use it on the wood lathe too... nothing worse than trying to find the off switch when you've done something dumb.

[Dixie_piper]

I put my motor on a dead man's switch. It's a foot pedal - press down with your foot, and it's on - take your foot off and it's off. I use it on the wood lathe too... nothing worse than trying to find the off switch when you've done something dumb.

Where would you recommend finding such a switch? I'm sure ebay has em, just want to get an opinion on which would work best with a homemade bench grinder/belt sander setup (1/2 HP, 1725 RPM, 9.2Amps?) I'm hoping to get my hands on an old A/C motor soon (A/C as in air conditioner)

[KurtHuhn]

Pretty much any foot switch should work, as long as it's not a rheostat (dimmer switch).

[Dixie_piper]

Cool, thanks
Could you point me in the direction of somewhere online that can show me what I need to do in order to wire this to a standard plug?
I know it's off subject and I apologize for that, but all I've found thus far is more idiots like me asking questions with no answers.
I'm half tempted to buy another motor, but that would take all the fun out of it

[KurtHuhn]

Maybe - do you have a picture of the motor? That will give me a good lead on the type of wiring that's probably correct.

[Dixie_piper]

I can have one up tomorrow (forgot to take a pic before I left today)
It's 5.75" square, came out of a GE 8 cycle washer. 110V, 1725/1140RPM and I forget the amps, I believe the high end was 9 something?
I was wrong about the wire colors earlier too, there's white in the center, red and blue far left, orange purple & yellow far right with empty spaces seperating both side from the center white wire.
I'll post a pic ASAP as well. Thanks!

[Dixie_piper]

Pics of the motor I'm speaking of

[KurtHuhn]

Take my answer with a grain of salt, since I'm not all to familiar with washing machine motors.

That said, White wires are usually common hot.

The colored wired are either for the start windings or for different motor speeds.

To run the motor on a simple switch, you would connect white to one of the motor speed wires.

The start windings require a capacitor, which might be in the control panel, or it might be somewhere next to the motor. This is needed since it quickly dumps juice to the start windings in order to get the motor spinning, and from there the run windings take over when the speed switch flips.

Be sure to get that capacitor if you didn't already.

And, now that I think about it, there should be a wiring diagram behind the control panel. Be sure to check that, and take a pic if you can, and I'll help you interpret it if you need.

In the meantime I'll look around and see if I can dig up anything in all teh documents I've got saved on my computer.

[Dixie_piper]

Ah, I see. I've still got the main control and the rest of the harness with ample space to re-connect.
The main control is big honkin thing, I did decipher that the other controls are useless in this application, only controlling water flow and whatnot.
So, there are 3 basic speeds, so I would ASS-u-ME the three odd colrs decide that, the white is "power in," and the red and blue wires are starter wires for the winding?
Again, just "guess-timating" there. If that is the case though, I should be able to plug the power cord back into the main harness, omit the water controls, re-ground the ground wires, and run it? If that makes any sense what so ever?
In that case, next Q&A, what do I do with the grounds formerly hooked to the casing? Ground bar maybe?
And the wiring diagram... is a rat's nest now. It got chewed up in storage, can only decipher that it WAS a wiring diagram... cursed rodents...

[Dixie_piper]

Okay, I wired the motor back into the harness and re-connected the power cord.
I called an electrician friend to ask what to do with the grounds (5 total) he said I could put them to one common ground, which I did.
Everything supposedly in order, I tried it out on multiple settings (since some require the motor to stop) and the "pump motor" kicked on in multiple positions just fine, but never so much as a buzz from the washer motor.
Thinking of the "lid switch," I got it off of the washer, reconnected it, tried it, still nothing.
I'm thinking that whatever it is that tells the motor when the washer is full (i.e. start turning now) is my missng link.
Problem there, is that I'm unsure where that sensor/switch would be. I considered the load size selector since it has a water line to it, but how would I "lie to it" to relay that to the motor to engage? I've got a few ideas I intend to set into motion tomorrow, one of which is entertaining the thought that this motor is just shot, and finding a simpler motor