This forum is a scary place

[Sasquatch]

Part of the intimidation thing is that by and large, the most vocal people on this board actually know each other in the actual real world, and some of us have done so for 20 years. So there's naturally a sort of "cliquey" feeling, inside jokes, banter, that a new guy has a tough time being a part of. It's like walking into a bar full of sailors with your shiny new Army uniform on. Er, hey guys!


The help given, most of the advice given here, is coming from what might be called the Danish or the Danish/American school - I would suggest that Thile, Huhn, Weaver, Beard, Davis, Johnson etc all ascribe to a reasonably similar school of aesthetics as regards pipes. Look for example at how much information there is on this board regarding Tyrolean pipe making, the metal work, the wood shank to clay bowl..... hey, guess what, there's NONE. This could indeed be called the "Danish type handmade pipe making forum" because that's all we ever talk about. No one here thinks Castello makes good shapes, for example. I've never heard that here.

I'm sure every industry and hobby has it's segmentation - do fine-line tattoo artists talk much with the tribal crowd? So I see this forum as being a pipe making forum with a real serious slant toward Danish-inspired shaping and finishing, with traditional materials of briar and ebonite. A few of us fuck around with something as wild as acrylic.

So when a guy shows up here, hoping for advice, he is getting advice by and large about how to make a nicer Danish-aesthetic pipe, which is to say.... "Your pipe is a high-grade except for this and this and this and this and this...." And that's the unwritten "here's what you should be aiming for".

[Sasquatch]

And no, Scottie, you don't count at all.

I will say this - I've seen two kinds of people use this board - people like Scottie and Wayne who made pipes and brought them here and got criticism and then did it again and people who come here looking for advice, may or may not ever make or show a pipe, and they drift back into the fabric of the unreality they came from.

Desire and deterimination will beat intimidation every time.

[Sasquatch]

And maybe, again, this is more about me particularly than "most" of us here. I have an inferiority complex about my pipes, I never think they're good enough. But I think that's pretty common, isn't it?

[sandahlpipe]

Come on, it's not like anyone is going to get smited (smote?)

Actually, smitten is the word you're looking for.

[scotties22]

Smite, smitten, smote? Huh...

[sandahlpipe]

And for those reading who want to be part of the inside crowd and get in on the inside jokes, the Friday night hangout is the place to do it. I missed a lot of the humor and inside jokes before I started dropping in on the hangouts. So if you're like me and feel left out in all the inside jokes, start hanging out with us on Friday nights. Should help as well reading people's tone when they critique your work as well.

[Massis]

And for those reading who want to be part of the inside crowd and get in on the inside jokes, the Friday night hangout is the place to do it. I missed a lot of the humor and inside jokes before I started dropping in on the hangouts. So if you're like me and feel left out in all the inside jokes, start hanging out with us on Friday nights. Should help as well reading people's tone when they critique your work as well.

"friday night" in your timezone is somewhere around 3AM here I think

[Charl]

being floored by guys who know what they're doing (or rather good at pretending to be?)

And to get to know the difference.

I have an inferiority complex about my pipes, I never think they're good enough. But I think that's pretty common, isn't it?

Yip!

[Literaryworkshop]

I don't really enjoy posting my pipes for critique, but it's the only way I'm going to learn anything here.

I do, however, really enjoy listening to you guys (and Scottie) trash each other.

[d.huber]

And maybe, again, this is more about me particularly than "most" of us here. I have an inferiority complex about my pipes, I never think they're good enough. But I think that's pretty common, isn't it?

Very common.

I think that everyone has pointed out true stuff about the intimidation factor, especially trying to peek your head into an established community of friends. I remember, for me, (although I can be pretty manic when I'm nervous) participating in the forum was terrifying initially because I knew most of the people who were already here as celebrities. They were to me anyway. The more I participated, the more comfortable I became, and the more connected I felt. Now folks that I use to get all fluttery about speaking to I chat with casually as good friends who love pipes. What's funny to me is that this was always the case, I just had to be comfortable and confident enough to see it.

I think it's important for those of us who are a part of the community here already to remember to offer positive critique along with constructive criticism. I know I tend to hammer only on the things I see as a problem and have forgotten in the past that everyone learns differently and at a different pace. Everyone learns well when they receive some praise for the good in their work and are given one or two things to improve the next time. There are a few guys here who are very good at this *cough* Tyler *cough* but I notice them commenting on gallery posts less frequently than I would hope.

TL;DR: Tyler should post more.

[Sasquatch]

. The more I participated, the more comfortable I became, and the more connected I felt. Now folks that I use to get all fluttery about speaking to I chat with casually as good friends who love pipes. What's funny to me is that this was always the case, I just had to be comfortable and confident enough to see it.

Actually.... we still pretty much think you're a twat.


Sorry.

[d.huber]

. The more I participated, the more comfortable I became, and the more connected I felt. Now folks that I use to get all fluttery about speaking to I chat with casually as good friends who love pipes. What's funny to me is that this was always the case, I just had to be comfortable and confident enough to see it.

Actually.... we still pretty much think you're a twat.


Sorry.

Excuse me while I bask in the glow of your love. Aaaaaaaaah.

[caskwith]

Actually.... we still pretty much think you're a twat.


Sorry.

Good to see the colonials still speak the mother tongue

[Oakbear]

I think that everyone has pointed out true stuff about the intimidation factor, especially trying to peek your head into an established community of friends. I remember, for me, (although I can be pretty manic when I'm nervous) participating in the forum was terrifying initially because I knew most of the people who were already here as celebrities. They were to me anyway. The more I participated, the more comfortable I became, and the more connected I felt. Now folks that I use to get all fluttery about speaking to I chat with casually as good friends who love pipes. What's funny to me is that this was always the case, I just had to be comfortable and confident enough to see it.

Good advice thanks. Kind of sums up some of my feelings and what to do about it. Next pipe i make gets critiqued!

[e Markle]

Ernie has the west coast snobs, and I couldn't be happier.

As the official delegate of West Coast Snobbery, I deign to offer a response in this den of mediocrity.

Within some ill-defined parameters, I really don't mind people making pipes with different goals in mind. Sas's pipes fall within that delination. Would I buy one of his pipes? Probably not. Do they send me into paroxysms of disgust? No. I find that execution is generally more important than style, but I can absolutely point to some styles that do send me into paroxysms of disgust. As I mentioned once before, I'm less concerned about the result than I am with pursuing excellence (there is at least one massive caveat to that), and I do note an increasing lack of that in the (American) pipe world at large. I'm not on the forum enough to see where things currently sit so I can't comment on this group.

[The Smoking Yeti]

Ernie has the west coast snobs, and I couldn't be happier.

As the official delegate of West Coast Snobbery, I deign to offer a response in this den of mediocrity.

Within some ill-defined parameters, I really don't mind people making pipes with different goals in mind. Sas's pipes fall within that delination. Would I buy one of his pipes? Probably not. Do they send me into paroxysms of disgust? No. I find that execution is generally more important than style, but I can absolutely point to some styles that do send me into paroxysms of disgust. As I mentioned once before, I'm less concerned about the result than I am with pursuing excellence (there is at least one massive caveat to that), and I do note an increasing lack of that in the (American) pipe world at large. I'm not on the forum enough to see where things currently sit so I can't comment on this group.

As far as the quality of American carvers going down, in one sense this is true. There are a lot of crappy pipes being made, marketed, and sold for high-grade(ish) prices. However, the overwhelming number of these are made by a bunch of part-time guys with an instagram account. As far as full-time American professional carvers go, the standard is quite high. I'm thankful that at the very least, it's easy to tell who is who just by looking at the work.

[sandahlpipe]

As the official delegate of West Coast Snobbery, I deign to offer a response in this den of mediocrity.

Within some ill-defined parameters, I really don't mind people making pipes with different goals in mind. Sas's pipes fall within that delination. Would I buy one of his pipes? Probably not. Do they send me into paroxysms of disgust? No. I find that execution is generally more important than style, but I can absolutely point to some styles that do send me into paroxysms of disgust. As I mentioned once before, I'm less concerned about the result than I am with pursuing excellence (there is at least one massive caveat to that), and I do note an increasing lack of that in the (American) pipe world at large. I'm not on the forum enough to see where things currently sit so I can't comment on this group.

As far as the quality of American carvers going down, in one sense this is true. There are a lot of crappy pipes being made, marketed, and sold for high-grade(ish) prices. However, the overwhelming number of these are made by a bunch of part-time guys with an instagram account. As far as full-time American professional carvers go, the standard is quite high. I'm thankful that at the very least, it's easy to tell who is who just by looking at the work.

Don't be hating on the instagram peeps just 'cause you guys in Montana don't know how to work the Internet...

[PremalChheda]

As far as the quality of American carvers going down, in one sense this is true. There are a lot of crappy pipes being made, marketed, and sold for high-grade(ish) prices. However, the overwhelming number of these are made by a bunch of part-time guys with an instagram account. As far as full-time American professional carvers go, the standard is quite high. I'm thankful that at the very least, it's easy to tell who is who just by looking at the work.

If you just ignore all the turds, American Carvers are at the top along with the best from the rest of the world, and moving up. Every country/region has its turds including a plethora from Western Europe, but they have many of the best as well. Although, I do not see many turds from the Eastern Europeans.

[Oakbear]

I wonder how many of the turds get filtered out in the domestic market?
Do Americans see more American examples, Danish see Danish, Russians see Russian ones etc? Language i guess plays a part too.

I know the internet means we're a global market, but the global merchants seem to choose largely the better stuff.

The lower grade hobby stuff mostly floats around in the social media stuff.

I would agree that America has become a definite big player in the high end market. Dare i say it, even developed an American style?

[The Smoking Yeti]

If you just ignore all the turds, American Carvers are at the top along with the best from the rest of the world, and moving up. Every country/region has its turds including a plethora from Western Europe, but they have many of the best as well. Although, I do not see many turds from the Eastern Europeans.

Exactly!

I'm pretty sure the Gestapo take away all the turd makers.