As noted in the thread title, I'd posted this about a week ago on the Facebook page (and got some very constructive feedback from DocAitch, I believe), but would love to get more feedback in the event that there's not a ton of overlap on the FB page.
Most of Doc's (much appreciated) feedback echoed the errors I've pointed out, but he also noted that the stem is perhaps too heavy and that harder demarcations between the straight/bird's eye sections would better emphasize the blowfish aspects - though I will say that now that I've smoked it for a week and have spent many hours with it in hand, I'm mostly pleased with those lines being less clearly defined because of how much I like how it feels in my hand, even if they're not exactly proper.
Anyway, still a ton to learn of course, but I feel like this is maybe 75-80% of the way toward being a pretty okay little pipe.
Thanks!
Original Facebook post below:
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After doing 15 pipes from kits, I took the plunge and made my first one from scratch - I guess sort of an egg with some blowfish DNA.
Definitely open to critique (I've got to learn, but maybe be gentle) - I'm aware there's a *LOT* wrong with it:
- A few tiny scratches in the stem I didn't get out, as well as a bit of oxidation that I missed until it was polished - both things I'll live with and do better next time.
- The color got a little bit muddy I think from some wet sanding.
- I did a pretty bad job facing the shank and the stem, and they ended up with a hairline gap that I couldn't manage to get out. I think I probably didn't grind the point off the forstner bit very evenly and it chewed a bit rather than making things nice and flat and clean - and once that got not-square, I really struggled with getting it better. Plus the tenon is just ugly.
- Did the shaping with the stem in, but not all the final sanding, so they don't mate perfectly.
- The button is probably a little huge and is not as clean as it needs to be. I mostly smoke my kit pipes which have the pre-formed vulcanite stems and big round buttons, so to a certain extent that's what feels 'right' to me.
- I also lost a little bit of the grace in that bottom line with some of the later sanding - that little bit of concavity there at the transition wasn't intended in the original shape.
- Bowl might be a bit large for the shank/stem, although I am mostly happy with the shape.
- Maybe a little bit of a kink in the stem bend, although that might also just be the way I shaped the stem - I almost wonder if I'd want to try bending before final shaping in the future.
All that being said, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, but aspire to be good enough one day to be embarrassed by it. It's my first pipe with a 5/32" airway and first experience with a delrin tenon - and I really like both a lot.
And yes, I know I need to make a billiard for the sake of learning, they just don't sing to me that much :-/
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(Hopefully these images being hosted on Facebook come through)
Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
Chronicling my general ineptitude and misadventures in learning pipe making here: https://www.instagram.com/rustynailbriars/
- sandahlpipe
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Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
This pipe is a good illustration of why you ought to clear your list and work on a billiard next. Let me offer some more generic, big picture things, more to keep in mind as you continue your journey, than to help you with this pipe.
1. Slow way down. If you're having trouble with the shank/stem fit, it's because you're rushing through things like making sure your tools are properly set up. Especially early on in your pipe making journey, but also early on in each pipe, take your time to make sure you're doing things right from the start. You don't yet have the skills to recover from a mistake gracefully. If you build good habits of making sure everything is set up properly before you start the next step, you'll make your life much easier down the road.
2. Train your eyes first. Your skills as a pipe maker are limited to what your eyes can see. If you can't see lumps on the bottom line, bulges in the stem, or where a facet should or shouldn't be, you'll just make the same sorts of pipes that every other beginner is making. Study good pipes. Pay attention to lines on pipes (and on other objects of beauty) and think about which lines you like better than others.
3. Do one thing. Beginning pipe makers too frequently try to put too many elements into a single pipe. It may be a pipe chock full of good ideas, but if none of them work together, they just get visually confusing. Spend plenty of time planning out your shapes ahead of time. Pick out a single idea and execute that single idea well. Don't try to juggle on a unicycle before you can balance on your legs. The reason the billiard comes so highly recommended is that it will force you to focus on one thing and do exactly that. Any mistakes can't be passed off as "creative license" and you actually learn from a billiard critique.
That's probably enough for now. Although, it's never too late to get the sanding scratches out of the stem. 15 minutes with some sandpaper are most definitely worth it. And a pipe ought NEVER to be sold with sanding scratches in the stem. Not only is it poor workmanship, but it also provides more surface area for oxidation to occur.
1. Slow way down. If you're having trouble with the shank/stem fit, it's because you're rushing through things like making sure your tools are properly set up. Especially early on in your pipe making journey, but also early on in each pipe, take your time to make sure you're doing things right from the start. You don't yet have the skills to recover from a mistake gracefully. If you build good habits of making sure everything is set up properly before you start the next step, you'll make your life much easier down the road.
2. Train your eyes first. Your skills as a pipe maker are limited to what your eyes can see. If you can't see lumps on the bottom line, bulges in the stem, or where a facet should or shouldn't be, you'll just make the same sorts of pipes that every other beginner is making. Study good pipes. Pay attention to lines on pipes (and on other objects of beauty) and think about which lines you like better than others.
3. Do one thing. Beginning pipe makers too frequently try to put too many elements into a single pipe. It may be a pipe chock full of good ideas, but if none of them work together, they just get visually confusing. Spend plenty of time planning out your shapes ahead of time. Pick out a single idea and execute that single idea well. Don't try to juggle on a unicycle before you can balance on your legs. The reason the billiard comes so highly recommended is that it will force you to focus on one thing and do exactly that. Any mistakes can't be passed off as "creative license" and you actually learn from a billiard critique.
That's probably enough for now. Although, it's never too late to get the sanding scratches out of the stem. 15 minutes with some sandpaper are most definitely worth it. And a pipe ought NEVER to be sold with sanding scratches in the stem. Not only is it poor workmanship, but it also provides more surface area for oxidation to occur.
Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
I said be gentle!
In all seriousness, I definitely appreciate your feedback - and don't worry, I know I'm nowhere near where I'd need to be to sell anything (and would never let one go out the door that I didn't think was perfect - at least not for money).
Thanks!
In all seriousness, I definitely appreciate your feedback - and don't worry, I know I'm nowhere near where I'd need to be to sell anything (and would never let one go out the door that I didn't think was perfect - at least not for money).
Thanks!
Chronicling my general ineptitude and misadventures in learning pipe making here: https://www.instagram.com/rustynailbriars/
- sandahlpipe
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Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
The first honest feedback on my pipes left me literally in tears wanting to give up. I was told by more than one maker that my pipes were pieces of crap and that I should not show them at all, let alone sell them. They were absolutely right. If you're serious about making better pipes, the ego stroking doesn't help. On the other hand, we've all been there. It's hard to put your heart and soul into something and have it ripped to shreds. But none of the critique is meant to be a personal attack. And, by the way, the guys who told me my pipes were crap looked at my work a year or two later and were pleased to see it didn't stay crap. At that point, their good opinion had a great deal more value to me than all the praise I got early on.
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Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
Exactly this. ^^^^sandahlpipe wrote:This pipe is a good illustration of why you ought to clear your list and work on a billiard next.
There are two kinds of aspiring pipe makers: 1) those who are "tool & shop centric" and have landed on pipes as another object to fabricate (they've often done knives, furniture, duck decoys, etc); and 2) those who are visual artist/sculptor types who see shapes in their heads but don't know how to "make them happen."
#1's usually pick up the technical side of pipe making quickly, but find producing something aesthetically noteworthy to be challenging
#2's usually start making interesting/creative shapes straight away, but usually lack patience when it comes to the principles and physics of tools and the need for being practiced and systematic when it comes to their use.
BOTH kinds have been known to come to this forum unprepared for the gritty objectivity of the Gallery board.
You are definitely a #2, RickB, and the latter point seems it might also be the case.
I will say only this: Relax, dude. You are in good hands. Really. Many of the people on this board are among the best pipe makers alive. They know their shit. And they remember what it was like starting out. Listen to them and all will be well. You'll be making cooler pipes in less time than you thought possible. Argue with them and all that will happen is you'll make yourself frustrated, angry, and unhappy WITHOUT having changed anything. Some stuff about pipes (commercial/collectable briar pipes, anyway) simply IS. (The why of that doesn't matter, now, and will become clear of its own accord over time.)
Oh yeah... welcome aboard.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
Thanks guys - definitely appreciate it - I know getting torn down a bit is part of the process, and I wanted to rip that bandaid off because I do want to improve. First time posting but a pretty long time lurker, so I knew what I was in for!
And yep, definitely a #2, with a little bit of #1. Did sculpture a fair bit in school, was a luthier's apprentice for a few years (and some of the skills translate, but admittedly less well than I'd have liked), and do graphic design currently. Very much a case of seeing what I want in my head and losing it somewhere in translation, though I'm luckily still at a point where each pipe is light years better than the previous one. As I said in the OP, I want to reach a point where I'm embarrassed by this one, and if that means biting the bullet and doing a billiard, I'll probably do it.
Thanks again!
And yep, definitely a #2, with a little bit of #1. Did sculpture a fair bit in school, was a luthier's apprentice for a few years (and some of the skills translate, but admittedly less well than I'd have liked), and do graphic design currently. Very much a case of seeing what I want in my head and losing it somewhere in translation, though I'm luckily still at a point where each pipe is light years better than the previous one. As I said in the OP, I want to reach a point where I'm embarrassed by this one, and if that means biting the bullet and doing a billiard, I'll probably do it.
Thanks again!
Chronicling my general ineptitude and misadventures in learning pipe making here: https://www.instagram.com/rustynailbriars/
Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
I wonder which kind of newbies I belong toLatakiaLover wrote: #1's usually pick up the technical side of pipe making quickly, but find producing something aesthetically noteworthy to be challenging
#2's usually start making interesting/creative shapes straight away, but usually lack patience when it comes to the principles and physics of tools and the need for being practiced and systematic when it comes to their use.
Anyhow, I'm not in a position to say something good or bad about your pipe, except for I like it.
From one newbie to another, I know it can be boring, repeating the same group of classic shapes again and again. But it's worth it. Every single time I tried to make some fancy looking pipe it ended up as a disaster. It's because I don't know all the rules. And it sounds like a cliché, you need to know the rules before you break them.
"Making pipes is easy. Making GOOD pipes is hard. Just keep at it and never be satisfied" - George Dibos
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Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
There are some good things to this pipe of yours. It's got potential and that is good!
In a year's time you'll look back and say "Dear Lord!" That is, if you take your time and listen and learn.
Enjoy the ride!
In a year's time you'll look back and say "Dear Lord!" That is, if you take your time and listen and learn.
Enjoy the ride!
Re: Crosspost from Facebook: First Non-kit Pipe
Many thanks Jakub and Charl.
I've decided to take everyone's advice and do a billiard next - and to that end, I've devoted myself to running through every single billiard gallery post and read every piece of feedback (admittedly those are best when the pictures are still live), as well as reading the excellent 'dead ordinary billiard' thread Sas did over on PSF. Even though I still don't love the shape (I've been smoking pipes over half my life at this point and have exactly one billiard, a ~1930's Wally Frank that belonged to my wife's aunt's grandfather), I'm coming to really appreciate the grace and elegance of one when it's done right (incidentally, that Wally Frank is ass-ugly and either mishapen or warped by time - and would get positively reamed on here, but it smokes VA flakes like a CHAMP).
It's amazing and extremely heartening to read some of those threads with older uglier pipes from those of you making jaw-dropping specimens now (including that great 'post an early pipe superthread) - it gives me hope, as long as I can pay attention, listen hard, and learn well. I absolutely recognize how fortunate I am to have this forum and group as a resource, and that's not an opportunity I have any interest in squandering (mama didn't raise no dummy).
Now, all that said - I know execution is the hard part, but I may post my plans for this one before I start drilling and cutting so at least I know I'm aiming for the right target, if I could trouble y'all with taking a look before I screw anything up.
Many thanks again, everyone!
I've decided to take everyone's advice and do a billiard next - and to that end, I've devoted myself to running through every single billiard gallery post and read every piece of feedback (admittedly those are best when the pictures are still live), as well as reading the excellent 'dead ordinary billiard' thread Sas did over on PSF. Even though I still don't love the shape (I've been smoking pipes over half my life at this point and have exactly one billiard, a ~1930's Wally Frank that belonged to my wife's aunt's grandfather), I'm coming to really appreciate the grace and elegance of one when it's done right (incidentally, that Wally Frank is ass-ugly and either mishapen or warped by time - and would get positively reamed on here, but it smokes VA flakes like a CHAMP).
It's amazing and extremely heartening to read some of those threads with older uglier pipes from those of you making jaw-dropping specimens now (including that great 'post an early pipe superthread) - it gives me hope, as long as I can pay attention, listen hard, and learn well. I absolutely recognize how fortunate I am to have this forum and group as a resource, and that's not an opportunity I have any interest in squandering (mama didn't raise no dummy).
Now, all that said - I know execution is the hard part, but I may post my plans for this one before I start drilling and cutting so at least I know I'm aiming for the right target, if I could trouble y'all with taking a look before I screw anything up.
Many thanks again, everyone!
Chronicling my general ineptitude and misadventures in learning pipe making here: https://www.instagram.com/rustynailbriars/