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I'm a (very) new pipe maker. Exploring some options. I like the idea of a horn ring on the shank with the stem inserted like in this Geiger:



I have a good bit of antler lying around but I'm not clear how you would mount such a ring. Could it be epoxyed flush to the end of the shank? Does it need its own tenon? It seems like a separate tenon like Delrin or stainless would interfere with how the stem inserts.

Any advice much appreciated.

George

Don't use real horn. It's unstable.

The synthetic stuff looks just as good and won't drive you insane.

What do you mean by unstable? Does it oxidize or split or change dimensions?

Anyway, what I have is antler which, I think, is different from horn. It is very hard and seems very stable in all aspects......but I could be wrong about that. It is very hard to work with though so I might look into the synthetic horn anyway.

Both splits/delaminates and changes dimensions. It's a total crapshoot. Might last a few years before detaching/loosening/splitting, might only last a few months.

It would be one thing if nothing else looked like it---some people might think the transitory trade-off worth it---but when there are stable synthetics that are impossible to distinguish without lab (or destructive) testing, why go there at all?

To mount an extension like that, synthetic or natural, you should use a tenon to ensure it stays put. Just epoxying it flush face-to-face is too fragile in my experience.

Tenon on the shank, slide the material over and then counter bore for the stem so it hides everything when fitted.

I have to disagree with George though, while real horn can be troublesome, I have yet to see a synthetic that looks even half decent.

Thanks guys. Will see what I can work out. If I do this it will be in antler. It is much more like bone. Polishes to a deep shine but is never perfectly white. Unfortunately I do not have a lathe which may make this idea impossible.

To clarify, it was said above that simply epoxying a horn shank extension would probably be too fragile. Is the same true for a wood-to-wood join without a tenon? I have some of the wood epoxy LL recommends in one of his videos (T-88). I have done this once with a small locust ring on the shank of a straight pipe and it seems super solid but I don't know if that will be true a year from now. (Its a pipe I'm keeping, no customer involved). If it isn't a good practice I don't want to do it on pipes as my skill/quality level improve.

George

Turn a tenon on the shank. Do not flush mount. It will eventually fail because briar and horn expand and contract at different rates. Additionally, it's best to still have your mortise be briar. Horn and antler changes shape too much and your stem fit is going to likely fluctuate. If you're using antler, just make sure it's old and dry. Old antler is much more stable. It's also very beautiful. One key to preventing antler and horn shank adornments from cracking is to make sure you leave a little room for it to expand and contract around the briar tenon.

I'm with Chris in that not much comes close in beauty to real horn and antler but it can be a bitch to work with. I'm guessing George has seen more than his fair share of split horn and antler which is undoubtedly why he warns against it. There's wisdom in a repairman's advice for sure.

10-4 on not flush mounting unless absolutely necessary. There was no other mechanical option in that video, but the briar was shielded with an ss tube plus the extension was a stable artificial material, so the join should last a good while... but if you have a choice, don't do it.

As far as having seen a lot of split and delaminated horn, yup. By definition pipes don't get sent to me UNLESS they're zonked, of course, so the data is skewed, but among the failures are absolute premier makes. And you'd have to assume those guys would could (and would) obtain the best materials available. It really sucks to see otherwise glorious artworks simply coming apart.

Update: Bought some natural horn from VF to make a crude version of the pipe shown above. I had a hard time with it. Edges were somewhat fibery when cut. Then, when I was tapping it (lightly) into the mortise the edges split and it was ruined. All I had to replace it with was some green swirl acrylic. I cut a tenon on the acrylic with a vulcanite spacer on it and pressed into the briar shank mortise. Stem tenon fits into mortise on other end of acrylic. Don't know how the acrylic mortise - to - vulcanite stem tenon will behave but seems fine now. Not sure how I feel about the green on this pipe but the concept seems to have worked. (The stem in the picture is pre-formed but modified with an opened funnel etc but it is temporary. Will make stem from scratch when I get some more vulcanite rods in.)

Looks like you did the best with what you had. I’m looking forward to seeing it with the hand cut stem. Keep it up George!