Extra - contrasting color of the briar.

[Odissey]

Good day!
I don’t know if the translator can handle it, but I’ll try.
My first attempts to get extra - contrasting color on briar wood ended in complete failure.
Black Leather Dye did not want to soak deep into the briar. I decided that I would try chemical staining. I poured steel wool over with acetic acid. After three to four days, I received the first crystals of iron acetate. I dissolved them in water, I processed the briar with the resulting solution and got a super black color. However, I rejoiced early. Chemical staining, in my opinion, completely kills briar. After treatment with iron acetate, it is impossible to get any shades of the second color. At best, the briar becomes like a well-finished oak floor.
I had to go back to Leather Dye. Through trial and error, I found an approach that gives a very good result. I don’t know, maybe six months or a year will pass and I will say that this is bad and there is another way, more reliable and faster. I continue experiments on contrast staining. But for now, I use this method. A full finish by this method takes no more than 1.5 hours.
There is one postulate that no one can refute. A water stain always penetrates deeper into the wood than an alcohol stain. Leather Dye is an alcohol stain.
There is another postulate. Alcohol stains, as a rule, without exception, can be diluted with water. This does not mean that you can completely replace alcohol with water, but adding 50-60% of water to grain alcohol is possible. A small amount of sediment may appear, but it does not affect the color of the paint. We have no grain alcohol for sale in Russia, but there is vodka. I use vodka. You can use a mixture of grain alcohol with water in a ratio of 1/1.
I dilute black Leather Dye usually in the ratio 1/2. 1 part Leather Dye and 2 parts vodka. You can use non-diluted stain. In this case, its consumption will be a little more.
I apply the first layer of black stain after processing the stammel with sandpaper with a grain of 240 units. I use sandpaper made by 3M or Mirka. In Russia, it costs about $ 1 per sheet. On a black surface, I better see the lines forming the pipe. If something does not suit me, I can easily go down to a grain of 180 or even 120 and fix everything. If all is well, I grind the pipe with grain 320. After its use, even small scratches should not remain.
After sandpaper with grain 320, I again paint the tube black. And let her dry completely in a few minutes. Usually 2 to 3 minutes.
How much paint to apply? Usually just enough to make the briar black. The texture of the briar should not be visible under the paint. Excess paint is also not needed, it still does not absorb. Usually two layers of Leather Dye diluted vodka are enough.
After the briar has dried. 2 to 3 minutes. I take a cotton swab, moisten it in vodka and begin to moisten a briar with this cotton swab. Very precise work is needed here. Putting a lot of vodka on the briar is not necessary. It should be exactly enough to keep the briar surface moist for 5 to 8 minutes. That is, you just cover the dried wood with vodka. After 5 - 8 minutes we take a cotton pad, with which our wives remove makeup from the face. We lightly soak it in vodka and with this wet disk we remove the remains of black paint from the briar. We do all this work in neoprene or rubber gloves so as not to get our hands dirty.
Then turn on the hair dryer and dry the briar for 2 to 3 minutes at maximum power.
We process the briar with 400 grit sandpaper. Then we repeat the entire process of staining. We do everything exactly as described above. Paint, moisten with vodka, stand for 5 - 8 minutes with a damp surface, wipe, dry with a hairdryer.
We process a smoking pipe with sandpaper with a grain of 600 units.
For ordinary contrasting coloring this will be enough. If you need extra-contrast staining, then the painting process must be carried out again. Moisturize, soak for 5-8 minutes with the wet surface of the briar, remove any paint residue, blow dry.
Then again grinding with sandpaper with a grain of 800 or 1000 units. It is a very long time to sand 1000 units with sandpaper, but the result is worth it.
The second color I usually apply with two coats of paint diluted with vodka in the ratio of ½. After the paint has dried, I process the briar on a 6 inch rag wheel with white Dialux. About 1500 - 1800 rpm until the Briar texture I need appears completely. If there is little paint left somewhere, apply another coat of stain to this place.
Then again the rag wheel.
You should know that not every briar is able to perfectly accept the contrasting color. Usually an excellent result is obtained from a briar with a pronounced grain. Where it is not there, you should not expect a good result.
The final result will depend on your ability to work with sandpaper. Grinding pressure should be minimal. Otherwise, you just remove the entire layer of black paint with sandpaper. This is the main condition in this method. On a briar well absorbing stain, you can get an excellent result without additional wetting the briar with vodka. It is necessary to use a stain more diluted with vodka, up to 1/3, and natural drying without a hair dryer.
I tried to do both with and without wetting the surface of the briar with vodka. It turned out faster with vodka. Faster because natural drying is a rather long process. I usually wait 15 minutes for the briar to dry completely.

I never heat a briar before staining, because in my opinion this is complete stupidity. Skin paint has an alcohol base, and the faster this alcohol evaporates, the more poor stain penetration into the briar I will receive. Alcohol will evaporate very, very quickly from a heated briar. The fact that everyone says that heating a briar works well does not mean anything to me. There are scientifically proven facts that suggest otherwise. A placebo also works, although these pills usually have nothing but chalk and glucose.
But it’s a completely different matter if you heat a briar painted and moistened with vodka. You need to warm over hot water vapor. You can use boiling water in a pan. Hot steam warms up the briar and prevents the briar surface from drying out. In this embodiment, the heating of the briar works.
To enhance the penetration of stain into the briar, you can put the colored and moistened briar into a plastic bag for 1 - 2 hours. A plastic bag will close the contact of the wet briar with the surrounding air and prevent it from drying out quickly. Penetration of the stain into the briar will be deeper.
Attention, the last two methods require a very long drying. I have jewelry scales with an accuracy of up to 0.01 grams. According to the testimony of these weights, the briar dries completely after 2 to 3 days of natural drying.

But for a briar with good grain, this is not necessary, it will be deeply painted with a black stain. For poor grains, no staining methods will help. Look in the gallery on Cello in my performance. It was a briar with a not pronounced grain. It was not possible to get a very contrasting stain on it, because it is simply not possible for the piece of briar I used.
And the problem here is not that it cannot be painted black. The problem is that you will not get very light strips on this briar, which give contrasting coloring.

[UnderShade]

I guess if you have enough time on your hands, experiments like this are fun. However, if you talk to most carvers, they will recommend using leather dye. It's tried and true and has never let me down. I let my pipes sit with a primary coat of black (or another color darker than my secondary coat) for at least 24 hours to ensure penetration. I never heat my briar, although I know many who do.

[Odissey]

I use FIEBING'S LEATHER DYE to paint my pipes. In my opinion, all pipe cutters all over the world work mainly with this skin stain. It seems that the translator did not cope with the translation, since you did not understand this.

[UnderShade]

I understood your post, just not the need to go through such toil. But, if you've got the extra time on your hands- go for it.

[wdteipen]

I use a combination of aniline (alcohol) dyes and water soluble dyes.

With your iron acetate chemical staining, did you sand to reveal the grain or just try adding a top stain? Many folks get a nice contrast but you have to lightly sand off the black from the iron acetate. I've gotten pretty good results with the chemical stain as well but there are easier ways.

[Odissey]

I use a combination of aniline (alcohol) dyes and water soluble dyes.

With your iron acetate chemical staining, did you sand to reveal the grain or just try adding a top stain? Many folks get a nice contrast but you have to lightly sand off the black from the iron acetate. I've gotten pretty good results with the chemical stain as well but there are easier ways.

Hi Wayne!
What difficulties can be? Iron acetate is quite difficult to obtain, but if it is already made, then you can work with it like with a normal stain.
What I did not like about working with iron acetate.
A good finish on the briar makes it look like mother of pearl. The second color appears in different shades.
After grinding black and painting with a second color, the second color is very even, all the shades in it disappear. This is what I call the “Kill” briar.
It is completely unclear how to store iron acetate. I had it about 200 grams in the form of an aqueous solution. After about three weeks, the solution became completely transparent, and iron acetate fell in the form of flakes to the bottom of the can. I very much doubt that he is still suitable for working with briar. Tell me if you know how to save it. I still have a lot of it, iron wool is still dissolved in vinegar to this day.
Perhaps the water should be distilled, and not from the tap in the kitchen. I do not know

Regards, Odissey

[Odissey]

I understood your post, just not the need to go through such toil. But, if you've got the extra time on your hands- go for it.

I came to this forum because I really want to reduce the time spent on the manufacture of a smoking pipe. We all come here for knowledge and tips that can improve our skills. I think that you came to this forum for the same.
The topic of obtaining EXTRA contrasting color here on the forum has been raised more than once. But they did not come to a common opinion about how to do it.
This is probably good. We are all different, each of us has his own understanding of how briar should look after the finish. What looks bad to me, someone else will say “I don't need better” and vice versa.
We live in a world in which the laws of physics and chemistry rule and we cannot but take them into account if we need a good result.
Therefore, I propose not only to you, but to all participants in this forum to discuss the topic of EXTRA contrast staining of briar again.
But first, take a look at a fairly simple example

These smoking pipes have extra contrast staining





But these pipes do not have extra contrast staining.





But this is my personal opinion, someone else can say. "Odissey they all have a great contrasting color.

Playing in this field, where everyone has their own rules of the game, we will never come to a common result.
Therefore, I propose to discuss only what is directly related to the laws of the universe with the very laws of physics and chemistry that we all taught at school and at the university.
So you write that you just leave the painted smoking pipe for 24 hours and get an excellent result.
If you look at it from the point of view of the laws of physics, then in no more than 20 minutes all the alcohol from the applied stain should evaporate from the briar. Aniline dye has no legs; it can penetrate into the briar only together with the solvent penetrating into the briar. But the evaporator completely evaporated in 20 minutes! How does the stain penetrate the deeper layers of the briar?
Briard has a natural drying and residual moisture is always present in it. Moisture in it is about 10 - 14%. Is this moisture enough to ensure the diffusion of stain molecules in the briar? I am not so sure.

I am writing all this and I understand that we have reached a dead end from which we most likely have no way out. We need some physical methods of control that will allow us to establish the truth. Otherwise, our conversation will be reduced to empty chatter, not supported by any proven results.
Therefore, this topic can be closed.

Regards, Odissey

[Odissey]

A good finish on the briar makes it look like mother of pearl. The second color appears in different shades.
After grinding black and painting with a second color, the second color is very even, all the shades in it disappear. This is what I call the “Kill” briar.

Regards, Odissey
[/quote]

It will probably be better if I show how you can "kill" the briar.



There are only two colors. Black and second, probably yellow. The second color has no midtones. It is the same in intensity over the entire surface of the pipe. Such a pipe for me personally loses a significant part of its attractiveness. The contrast is quite bright. But the pipe becomes boring.
This is approximately the option I get, but I really do not like it.

Regards, Odissey

[UnderShade]

I don’t want to come off sounding like a jerk, (so please don’t misunderstand me) but you’ve probably made a few more pipes than me- which means you’re still a beginner. You need to find the tried and true methods and stick with them. Your pipes look good so far. Sometimes you gotta wait for good results and not rush it. A good idea is to have multiple pipes going at once. The time you waste writing huge posts, you could be making pipes

With regard to contrast staining...
I think that the grain tightness and orientation is paramount. Good grain will stain well. Proper sandIng at the proper grits will will bring out that grain. Talk to 10 different pipe makers and you will get 10 different answers about finishing processes and which one is the best. This is all just my opinion. Maybe someone with more experience will articulate better.

[Odissey]

I write posts mainly at work. I can’t do pipes at work, but I can write posts when I have free time. I am a test engineer. There are objects for testing means there is work. There are no objects - I'm smoking. I make pipes at home in the evening.

But I can’t sit and wait for it to come. The experience is good, but if nothing is done to acquire it, it will not appear.

You are probably just a little younger than me. I will be 59 years old tomorrow. Therefore, time is short. Life is very short

[UnderShade]

Too true...

[DocAitch]

Thank you for your post. There is a lot of food for thought here.
I enjoyed your post and your technique has a logical/well thought out feel that others pontificating on the same subject do not.
“Everybody else does it this way” and “tried and true” are road signs to me that tell me to put this advice on hold, until other ways are checked out.
I am not an engineer but have significant physics in my education that I can appreciate your dismissal of the “heated briar technique”- evaporating the solvent that is carrying the pigment into the briar seems to be a futile dead end exercise- as does “flaming”.
It has been in the back of my mind that steaming has some unexplored merit and I think that the sealing in a plastic bag is a real innovation.
DocAitch

[Otesanek]

I am not an engineer but have significant physics in my education that I can appreciate your dismissal of the “heated briar technique”- evaporating the solvent that is carrying the pigment into the briar seems to be a futile dead end exercise- as does “flaming”.
It has been in the back of my mind that steaming has some unexplored merit and I think that the sealing in a plastic bag is a real innovation.
DocAitch

I've thought about the heating thing a bit too and maybe the trick lies in the middle. Perhaps you don't need to heat the briar to scorching hot temps, which would evaporate your dye carrier (seems obvious) but maybe if the stummel spends some time in a hot dry box, enough to expand the pores (if that's actually a thing) and render the wood "thirsty" it'll draw in more liquid stain?

Does wood reach some kind of equilibrium with ambient moisture?

The bag trick is compelling, you'd need a good way to seal up the chamber and mortise for sure. It'd be an easy test, two chunks of briar from the same block, one brushed one bagged, and then sanded equally. You could use a vacuum sealer and stain sous vide even!

[n80]

I saw in one of George's videos where he vigorously rubbed the stain in with gloved hands while it was wet. I recently did a contrast stain and did this with the first black coat and it seems to have made a difference compared to not doing it. Was it just this particular briar? Maybe. But 1) there is no harm in the technique that I can tell and 2) George recommended it, so..........

[PremalChheda]

Technique is equally important as the materials used. The iron acetate can work well but only with nearly perfect technique. Oil stain and then water or alcohol also works or vice versa but also good technique must be used. Double alcohol works great but certain colors do not work well together.