Working with shellac flakes

[hazmat]

Alright.. I've read as much on shellac as I could find on the forum and over the past weekend, I decided to take a dip into shellac, so to speak.

I picked up a pound of blonde dewaxed shellac flakes and mixed up two cuts, one the equivalent of a half pound cut, the other the equivalent of a 1 pound cut.

I then finish sanded a scrap piece of briar, applying stain and sanding it back off for contrast from about 400 grit on up to 800 grit until I had the finish and look I was after. I then cut the scrap in half so I could experiment with the two different cuts of shellac.

Now, here's where I'm not sure of the proper procedure. Is one supposed to buff after staining and then apply shellac, or apply shellac after staining and then buff?

I went with applying the shellac first, using a cotton cloth, and then buffing. I tried the half-pound cut first and it seemed okay, but I wasn't sure what to expect having never used the stuff before. It went on thinly and seemed to dry very quickly. I applied 3-4 layers as evenly as humanly possible. I didn't notice anything that seemed "wrong" with the application. Again, I had no idea what to expect here. It dried with a bit of gloss to it and didn't bubble or anything like that. It seemed pretty smooth, actually. I then buffed with brown tripoli, white diamond.. it was shining pretty well. I then hit it with carnauba and a dry buff and it got pretty damn glossy.

I did the same thing on the other piece, except I used the 1-pound cut. SUPER-glossy when I was finished.

So... after my rambling, I guess these are my questions:

Is a pound or even half pound cut too much?

Is the process I used the recommended method or should I have buffed before and after applying shellac?

Should a certain amount of setup time be allowed before moving from applying shellac to buffing?

Are there any suggestions anyone can give beyond what I'm already trying on my own? I plan to experiment for a while before I apply it to any pipes.

I think that's it for now. Thanks for any help!!

Matt

PS: I'm sure some of you guys have already figured this one out, but in case you haven't, I thought I'd pass it along. The gentleman at Woodcraft suggested running your shellac flakes through an electric coffee grinder prior to mixing them up to speed up their dissolving time. I have one I use for chopping dubbing for flies so I gave it a shot. The stuff dissolved in less than two hours... er.. the shellac flakes, not the dubbing.

[KurtHuhn]

Normally, when using shellac on a smooth pipe, I apply the shellac to the entire stummel, give it a 7-count, and wipe it completely off. Remember, all you're doing here is setting the stain, boosting contrast, and providing the basis for a longer lasting shine.

You don't want to apply the shellac like you might apply it to a wood turning or a table top. That will end up with a thick coat of the stuff, and you'll have a finish that will bubble when the pipe gets hot from being smoked.

The process that I was taught:
- Sand, stain, and (if needed) sand again to provide your desired coloration.
- Using a pipe cleaner bent in half, apply the shellac quickly over the entire stummel.
- Wipe off almost immediately, you don't want it to set up at all.
- For wiping off, I usually start counting when I get halfway through applying the shellac, and wipe everything off when I hit 7 regardless of whether I finished before that. If I'm not finished applying, I wipe off anyway.
- Let it sit for a couple hours in a dry area to allow what's left on the pipe to cure. At this point, it won't be even a little bit shiny. In fact, it will look rather dull.
- Buff lightly and apply wax as normal.

It's important to remember that you're buffing *very* lightly, especially if using brown tripoli. Buffing too hard is counterproductive at this point.

[hazmat]

Ahhhhhhh.. I see. I was using it wrong. Thanks for that, Kurt. I will play around with this method and see how I fare.

[Briarfox]

Well I picked up some shellac. However I'm trying some spray stuff. The guy at woodcraft recommended it.

So do I want to hit the pipe with brown trip first? Then use shellac then WD and wax?

When I'm done staining the pipe looks rather dull and usually black. I then use the Brown Trip to buff off the excess stain. Am I doing this wrong? Do I want to resand after the last stain coat then use shellac and buff?

[KurtHuhn]

Don't polish with compound before using shellac. There won't be enough tooth in the wood to grab any of it.

[Briarfox]

Gotcha, I'll try to apply it first.

So after staining, when the stain gets all dull and almost black, do you sand it out with 600 to get the color you want then use shellac? In the past I've always applied stain in between grits and after 800 grit, I'd stain one last time and then use the brown trip to pull off the excess stain.

[KurtHuhn]

By the time I've started buffing with compound, the pipe is exactly the color I want it. At that point, all I'm doing is adding shine.

The only time a stain is so dark that it's almost black is right before I sand with 360 grit. Any staining after that is just for highlights and contrast, and applied fairly lightly.

But, that's not the only way to do it. It's just the method that works for me.

[Briarfox]

Thanks Kurt, I'll give it a go. I never liked not owing the color untill I buffed.

[Briarfox]

Well I've decided to try mixing my own shellac. What cut seems to work best for you guys?

[hazmat]

Well I've decided to try mixing my own shellac. What cut seems to work best for you guys?

I mixed both the equivalent of a pound cut and a half pound cut. The half pound cut seems to do the job for me. You don't need to mix up the whole bag of flakes so you should have plenty to experiment with. Only problem is, heh... if you've never used the stuff before, you don't know what you're supposed to be seeing to determine if you're doing it right. Fun adventure, for sure!!

[Briarfox]

Well I'm stumped. With each pipe I make my shape improves as do my stems. The one thing I can't seem to improve on is the finish. I really want to get the almost glassy finish that does not seem to dull. I first tried to just buff and use Carnuba. It came out beautiful but after 2 smokes it began to dull. I then went to a shellac spray. It kept some shine but not the shine I was looking for.

So I bought some shellac flakes. I mixed a 1lb cut to test with. I'm trying to apply a very light coat and not wipe it off. This results in an uneven mess with a few small streaks! Do I really need to put the shellac on and then pull it all the way off? I'm noticing that if I keep a little shellac on it does not lose it's shine.

Maybe I need to add more alcohol and make the shellac a 1/2lb cut.

does anyone have and ideas suggestions. I'm really getting frustrated

[KurtHuhn]

I hate to say it, but this one area where established pipe makers are very secretive. The final finishing, where a high contrast and a high gloss are attained, are borne of experimentation and perseverance - much like hitting on the magical combination for a really great sandblast. With pipes looking pretty much the same until you get into "signature shapes", the finish is what helps pipe makers set themselves apart from each other.

That being said, unless you're laying on a thick coat of gloss finish, your pipe isn't going to stay shiny forever. It's well known that carnuba wears off almost immediately, and the use of shellac to set the stain only helps delay the inevitable. A thick layer of shellac won't be resilient enough to stand up to the heat inside the chamber, and it's a soft finish - meaning it will scratch and mar easily. other finishes are more robust, and can give your pipe a long lasting shine, but there's a whole cadre of pipe smokers out there that denounce pipes that stay shiny forever as poor smoking pipes who's wood was sealed and not allowed to breath. Right or wrong, that's the viewpoint.

What it boils down to is: make your pipes your way, the customers will find you.

[Briarfox]

I think your right Kurt, I just need to accept that I can't keep that glass like shine with just shellac and wax. Guess it's time to sand down the shop pipes and practice refinishing them in various ways!

[Frank]

I think your right Kurt, I just need to accept that I can't keep that glass like shine with just shellac and wax. Guess it's time to sand down the shop pipes and practice refinishing them in various ways!

That is exactly what I've been doing with estate pipes. I'm still a far way from achieving (if ever) Kurt's and others incredible finishes and contrasts, but I'm starting to make some progress. This Lorenzo looked like scrap wood when I got it. The finish is actually shinier than the pics, it's just muted by the diffused lighting:

[TreverT]

You should think of Shellac much more as a stain set than as a finish, FWIW. It just won't hold a gloss for a long time, because it's heat sensitive. The main thing it's good for is to help hold aniline stain on the pipe and keep it from bleeding off onto your hands so badly during early smokes - after all, aniline stain has no actual binder in it. It's just color. There's nothing to make it "stick" to the wood apart from absorption. Shellac wipes work because they share the same solvent with alcohol-soluble aniline and can blend and mix with it to provide the "stick" that the stain doesn't have on its own.

[Spence Pipes]

I was at Home Depot the other day and ran across a can. So I bought it and figured what the heck, I'll try it on a pipe or two and see what happens. I just finished a nice free hand, and used a dark brown stain , then re sanded back down to natural wood, leaving the contrast grain though. I then sprayed a few light coats on, and the grain just pop's out.

I am going to use it on a rusticated I just made for my self, as it seems all of the rusticated pipes I have, and the smooth Nording's all have been done this way. I have two Nording's I smoke weekly, and can not tell any differance in the way they smoke compared to just waxed pipes.

[Frank]

I was at Home Depot the other day and ran across a can.

Can of what?

[Spence Pipes]

of shellac.

[Briarfox]

I started with a can of shellac. I've moved to flake and like it much more. But the spray can does work. I spray close and put it on thick then give it a complete rub down.

[Spence Pipes]

I sprayed two pipe's so far. A rusticated I just finished for myself, and a smooth half bent I smoke when doing yard work ect. ( if I drop it and run over it with the mower I won't be as upset). Ismoked the smooth pipe a few times, and all seems well. Gonna smoke the rusti today some time, but it looks really good. Since I like the way it looks, I'll be getting some flakes soon.