Another Manzanita Bulldog (pictures)

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:20 pm

You will have to pardon my photography, as I just bought a new digital camera a week ago, and I am still trying to get the hang of it. But I wanted to post some pictures of the latest manzanita bulldog, this time in my Aztec design.

Worth noting is the fact that this is just the natural manzanita, no stain, whatsoever, just buffed with carnauba and that's it.

And I am also posting some photographs of manzanita growing in California taken by my new friend Richard, who has agreed to purchase the pipe above, and who also shares my love of homegrown tobacco and my interest in manzanita, as well.

In fact, Richard is currently working on harvesting a manzanita rootball. And if all goes well, he will be sending me some manzanita for future pipes. And if he survives the harvesting process okay, hopefully he and I can work something out for more manzanita later.

Manzanita shrub/tree in foreground (note smooth purplish bark)

Closeup

Leaves and Berries (for identification purposes)

LexKY_Pipe · Post by **LexKY_Pipe** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:31 pm

How would you rate this woods harness in comparison to briar?

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:42 pm

LexKY_Pipe wrote:How would you rate this woods harness in comparison to briar?

I would say that, were it not for the fact that manzanita -- aka "mission briar" -- tends to have much richer colors -- wine reds, coffee browns, etc. -- most of us really familiar with imported briar would have an extremely difficult time distinguishing between the two.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:03 pm

I wonder if processing the manzanita as the Mediterranean cutters do would make it even more similar.

I picked up a couple chunks at Woodcraft a couple weeks ago, and put them right back down. They were completely unfit for making into pipes - full of cracks, checking, and stress fractures. I would think that these would be a lot more valuable to woodturners if they were treated right.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:19 pm

KurtHuhn wrote:I wonder if processing the manzanita as the Mediterranean cutters do would make it even more similar.

I picked up a couple chunks at Woodcraft a couple weeks ago, and put them right back down. They were completely unfit for making into pipes - full of cracks, checking, and stress fractures. I would think that these would be a lot more valuable to woodturners if they were treated right.

Yes, definitely agree on that. I am guessing that the reason manzanita hasn't really caught on with US pipemakers -- since WWII, anyway -- has been the fact that those who have access to manzanita generally aren't familiar with the harvesting and processing techniques used by those around the Mediterranean.

So I have been trying to work out a process that involves harvesting the root ball, and either:

A) within a matter of hours:
_1) wrapping the rootball in plastic and
_2) quick-shipping it to somebody else for processing; or
B) within a matter of hours:
_1) cutting up the rootball into pipe-sized blocks
_2) boiling them 2-3 hours(?) like folks in Europe do (see "Characteristics of Briarwood")
_3) air-drying them for about an hour to get rid of the "dripping" water
_4) storing them approximately 5-to-10-in-a-plastic-bag for a period of one year
_5) successively poking holes in the plastic bag at a rate of one finger-size hole in each bag per month
_6) removing the blocks from the plastic bag after one year and allowing them to cure a few more months in a humid environment, and finally
_7) moving the blocks to a regular, climate controlled environment for additional curing/storage

The key to all this being to stretch out the drying process of approximately 2" thick blocks over the course of a year or more and hopefully avoid serious drying checks typically found in rough-cured manzanita.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:44 am

Now, if we could only find a group of land owners in the US with lots of Manzanita for harvest, all the import restrictions could be bypassed. Assuming they figure out the drying, curing, cutting, and aging of the wood to match the European version.

I think the key here is keeping the wood moist until it's cut. Based on what I've seen and read of cutters, the wood is kept out of the sun, and is periodically wetted. As soon as the blocks are cut, they're boiled for about 12 hours then allowed to slowly dry in a humid environment - which may include spraying with water to slow down the process if needed.

Wood turners are familiar with the process. A lot of woodturners will rough out a form while the wood is green and wet, then coat it with sealer and store it out of the sun and away from circulating air (like in a plastic bag) until the moisture content drops to the right level for finishing. That's why I'm a little surprised that manzanita is treated like the redheaded stepchild of woodturning and allowed to dry quickly and violently. Maybe it's time we started building awareness for this wood.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:26 pm

KurtHuhn wrote:Now, if we could only find a group of land owners in the US with lots of Manzanita for harvest, all the import restrictions could be bypassed.

Well, my buddy Richard is telling me he has thousands of them on his land, so we'll keep our fingers crossed.

Assuming they figure out the drying, curing, cutting, and aging of the wood to match the European version.

Yeah, that's gonna be the ticket.

I think the key here is keeping the wood moist until it's cut. Based on what I've seen and read of cutters, the wood is kept out of the sun, and is periodically wetted. As soon as the blocks are cut, they're boiled for about 12 hours then allowed to slowly dry in a humid environment - which may include spraying with water to slow down the process if needed.

Wood turners are familiar with the process. A lot of woodturners will rough out a form while the wood is green and wet, then coat it with sealer and store it out of the sun and away from circulating air (like in a plastic bag) until the moisture content drops to the right level for finishing. That's why I'm a little surprised that manzanita is treated like the redheaded stepchild of woodturning and allowed to dry quickly and violently. Maybe it's time we started building awareness for this wood.

Thanks for the info, Kurt. Yeah, I hadn't been able to figure out how long they boil their blocks, so now I know.

Edit: Oh, by the way, Kurt, I saw one of your customers bragging about his new pipe, over at Smokers' Forums. Didn't know if you had seen that yet, or not. Well done.

JHowell · Post by **JHowell** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:50 pm

There's an issue of P&T that has an article on Mimmo that goes into his process in some detail.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:15 pm

JHowell wrote:There's an issue of P&T that has an article on Mimmo that goes into his process in some detail.

Wow, cool. I'm gonna have to check that out.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:09 pm

Rob, these articles might help give an idea about curing the manzanita in a similar fashion to briar:
http://www.pipeguy.com/briar_factor.htm
http://pipedia.org/index.php?title=My_V ... ar_Sawmill
http://pipedia.org/index.php?title=Curing

As for harvesting & supplying the properly cured manzanita in bulk to pipemakers, well that's another (economic) story altogether. I know you guys are going to be all over me

for what I'm about to say, but so be it:

Firstly, the Mediterranean burl harvesters are pretty poorly paid compared to USA wages. Few, if any, Americans would do that lousy, laborious work for such a miserable income.

Secondly, compare the amount of time and work involved in preparing, curing and cutting the burls and blocks, to the work involved in supplying native American wood for regular woodworking and woodturning.
Consider how much you pay for that native American wood, then consider how much you'll be expected to pay for properly cured manzanita.
OK, flame on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a local supply of alternative briar.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:31 pm

Frank wrote:Firstly, the Mediterranean burl harvesters are pretty poorly paid compared to USA wages. Few, if any, Americans would do that lousy, laborious work for such a miserable income.

Secondly, compare the amount of time and work involved in preparing, curing and cutting the burls and blocks, to the work involved in supplying native American wood for regular woodworking and woodturning.
Consider how much you pay for that native American wood, then consider how much you'll be expected to pay for properly cured manzanita.
OK, flame on.

No flames from me. It's a simple matter of economics. You can't expect your average american to work for $2 an hour - or whatever it works out to. That said, we can all deram.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:53 pm

Frank wrote:Firstly, the Mediterranean burl harvesters are pretty poorly paid compared to USA wages. Few, if any, Americans would do that lousy, laborious work for such a miserable income.

You do know that pipe makers are pretty poorly paid compared to USA wages and that few, if any, Americans would do this lousy, laborious work for such a miserable income, right?

Seriously. I've got friends and family members who just shake their heads and go: oookkkaaayyy. And half of them don't even have a clue how much work is involved with making a pipe.

One of my brothers was like: "Yeah, there's probably not gonna be much money in that. They can make pipes in China for about $2 apiece, don't you think?"

And he's right, they can. But yet, people don't necessarily want a pipe made in China for $2 apiece. A lot of guys want a little more than that.

And why wouldn't a few of those same guys want a pipe made out of homegrown, hand-cut manzanita?

I think a few of them would.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:56 pm

pierredekat wrote:You do know that pipe makers are pretty poorly paid compared to USA wages and that few, if any, Americans would do this lousy, laborious work for such a miserable income, right?

I realize you're misquoting me somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but at least you're getting some personal satisfaction from producing a small usable art piece, compared to some poor bugger whacking at the hard earth with a pick, shovel & axe.

It amazes me that there are still so many pipemakers out there, considering the whole anti-smoking thing. Just take a quick glance at this list: http://pipedia.org/index.php?title=Main ... y_location

pierredekat wrote:And why wouldn't a few of those same guys want a pipe made out of homegrown, hand-cut manzanita?

I think a few of them would.

Considering the beautiful pipe of yours (illustrated above), I should think any pipe smoker/collector would want one.

Rob, the next time you attend a pipe show, take one of your manzanita pipes along and see how many people there can tell the difference.

pierredekat · Post by **pierredekat** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:55 pm

Frank wrote:It amazes me that there are still so many pipemakers out there, considering the whole anti-smoking thing. Just take a quick glance at this list: http://pipedia.org/index.php?title=Main ... y_location

Yeah, that is cool that there are so many, scattered all over the globe.

Considering the beautiful pipe of yours (illustrated above), I should think any pipe smoker/collector would want one.

Thanks

Rob, the next time you attend a pipe show, take one of your manzanita pipes along and see how many people there can tell the difference.

Dang, I do need to try to get to a pipe show sometime. Unfortunately, the nearest one I've found thus far is about 600 miles away. But that would be interesting to see if folks can tell the difference.

Even smoking one, I doubt many could tell. I know my own manzanita pipe has smoked really nice from the get-go.

And I have an update on my buddy Richard's manzanita harvest. He dug up two rootballs. One took him two hours, including the time it took to change saw blades -- sorry about that Richard

-- and the other took him 45 minutes.

He emailed me a whole bunch of photos, and I am including a few here.

A nice looking manzanita shrub/tree

One of the rootballs, note the manzanita thicket in the background

The harvesting process underway

Rootball #2, with a glove for perspective

Rootball wrapped up and ready to ship

Once it arrives, I'll be sawing it up into blocks and doing the boiling. I am also going to try to take a few photos of what I am doing, just to document the whole deal.

And if anybody would like Richard's contact information to coax him into another harvest, PM me. I haven't asked him how much he would charge for a rootball, but I will say that Richard is quite fond of pipes, cigars and homegrown tobacco.