jet black wood

Sanding, rusticating, sandblasting, buffing, etc. All here.
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

jet black wood

Post by KurtHuhn »

I started futzing around more with contrast staining without using dyes or stains, and this is one of those experiments in process:
Image

The reaction turned the top layer of wood jet black after about a 90 minutes, but the grain is still visible underneath. I'm going to let it rest and do it's thing for several hours today while I work on other pipes and update my website with new offerings. Later today I'll fix the reaction and buff it to see what I've got.
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
User avatar
Tsunami
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Post by Tsunami »

Looks good. Please let us know how this was achieved if you don't mind. I have been on the lookout for such an effect.
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

Post by KurtHuhn »

Step three is complete - neutralizing the reaction and fixing the contrast.

This is tannic acid from the homebrew supply store, and vinegar - applied in successive steps and allowed to react.

The pipe is now drying on the pegboard on the kitchen table, though I'm about to go stick it in the toaster oven to speed the drying process. Later on today, or possibly tomorrow morning depending on when it actually becomes dry, I'll buff it out and see what I'm left with.

I'm aiming for a dark contrast. If you're looking for the final finish to be jet black, I guess you would follow the same steps I did, but not buff the wood afterward. Use shellac to set the color, *then* buff - but I'm not sure.
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
Dane C
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:39 am
Location: Orange County, CA

Post by Dane C »

Any idea what will happen over time with casual smoking? Will the color stay even over areas that experience different temperature highs?
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

Post by KurtHuhn »

Temperature shouldn't affect this at all, since the reaction isn't dependent upon temp. What I'm more concerned with is if I was able to neutralize all the vinegar in order to stop the reaction. I'm going to smoke this pretty much every day until I can come to some conclusion on that.

Gotta put the wort on the King Kooker to boil, and while that's happening, I'll buff up this stummel to see what I've got. Pics to follow. Unless the pipe sucks, in which case I'll let this thread die. :shock:
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
User avatar
TreverT
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA
Contact:

Post by TreverT »

KurtHuhn wrote:Step three is complete - neutralizing the reaction and fixing the contrast.

This is tannic acid from the homebrew supply store, and vinegar - applied in successive steps and allowed to react.

The pipe is now drying on the pegboard on the kitchen table, though I'm about to go stick it in the toaster oven to speed the drying process. Later on today, or possibly tomorrow morning depending on when it actually becomes dry, I'll buff it out and see what I'm left with.

I'm aiming for a dark contrast. If you're looking for the final finish to be jet black, I guess you would follow the same steps I did, but not buff the wood afterward. Use shellac to set the color, *then* buff - but I'm not sure.
If it's similar to what I've done, you'll likely be left with a very dark brown. It penetrates deeper than aniline dyes, though it is not black per se. But the good thing is that you won't need to set the color, which is now part of the wood. It's different enough from aniline that you can dye over it and retain your contrast, without the undercolor mixing with the top coat. Generally that top layer is so thick that it requires brown compounding and then 600 grit sanding just to get down to the point where you're seeing variance in the wood grain tones again.

I guess I've been doing this since, hmm, around 99-2000 or so. But at the risk of dampening the enthusiasm, I just don't bother that often. A few good coats of an attractive aniline color still gives a beautiful result instantly, without all the waiting for this application and then that application to dry, then fighting it all to get the contrast even. These days I save it for the odd really special piece that I want to have a genuinely unique look.

As for smoking performance, it should be just fine. It darkens up normally in use, but doesn't rub off with handling.
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
www.talbertpipes.com

My Pipe Blog:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/pipeblog/

My Lizards & Pipes Web Comic:
https://talbertpipes.com/category/lizards/
User avatar
Tsunami
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Post by Tsunami »

So you mixed the tanic acid with tyhe vinegar? It will be interesting to see how it comes out. I have been looking for a high contrast finish. I hope this works out well for you. Looking forward to the results
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

Post by KurtHuhn »

Tsunami wrote:So you mixed the tanic acid with tyhe vinegar? It will be interesting to see how it comes out. I have been looking for a high contrast finish. I hope this works out well for you. Looking forward to the results
Nope. You apply each to the stummel in turn. If you mix them, you basically have a black stain, and that's no different than using a leather dye at that point.
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

Post by KurtHuhn »

TreverT wrote: If it's similar to what I've done, you'll likely be left with a very dark brown. It penetrates deeper than aniline dyes, though it is not black per se. But the good thing is that you won't need to set the color, which is now part of the wood. It's different enough from aniline that you can dye over it and retain your contrast, without the undercolor mixing with the top coat. Generally that top layer is so thick that it requires brown compounding and then 600 grit sanding just to get down to the point where you're seeing variance in the wood grain tones again.
Yeah, this was about as hard as I've ever had to buff something. I didn't resort to paper, but I did have to constantly reapply fresh compound to the wheel.
I guess I've been doing this since, hmm, around 99-2000 or so. But at the risk of dampening the enthusiasm, I just don't bother that often. A few good coats of an attractive aniline color still gives a beautiful result instantly, without all the waiting for this application and then that application to dry, then fighting it all to get the contrast even. These days I save it for the odd really special piece that I want to have a genuinely unique look.
Here's the results:
Image
Image
Image

I'll leave judgement up you guys, but I'm impressed.
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
User avatar
kbadkar
Site Supporter
Posts: 786
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Post by kbadkar »

Wow. :shock: That really came out well!... nice and black and no real nasty chemicals.

So you didn't add an aniline contrast stain after the initial tannic/vingear routine?
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

Post by KurtHuhn »

Thanks!

I left the colors were naturally occurring in the briar, though in hindsight, and nice light stain would have done wonders - like a Feibings beige or light tan.

There are many experiments to go on this finish before I'm truly happy with it, but I learned a hell of a lot. For instance, I need to learn how to buff this off without killing myself. My brown compound did okay once I ramped up the RPM to 2600 and really pressed the stummel in, but the black really goes deeper than is practical for buffing with that compound.

Also, I think I may have sanded to too high a grit to start with before applying the tannins. I'll need to experiment with sanding only to 360/400 or so.
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
User avatar
Tsunami
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Post by Tsunami »

That is EXACTLY what I am looking for!!! Now if I can find a place to buy some tannic acid. Kurt, Is there a specific concentration of tannic acid and also what kind of vinegar did you use? What was used as a neutralizer? That contrast is great! I am so glad you came up with this, much better that messing around with Copper(II) Cloride and Aniline Hydrochloride.
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

Post by KurtHuhn »

Here's the beauty of this! Tannic acid is available at any homebrew store that also caters to wine makers, or just about 10,000 different places online. It's sold as "tannin" and is packaged and distributed by RD Carlson - the same folks sell about 70% of the brewing supplies out there.

The vinegar is plain white distilled vinegar available at any grocery store.

Neutralize the vinegar, an acid, with a base. Most homes have a box of Baking Soda around, and it's a rather convenient neutralizer for acids of all kinds. Remember the volcanoes you made in grade school with modeling clay, vinegar, red food dye, and baking soda?

As far as concentration.... well, lets just say that a little goes a long way. I've got a good half inch of undissolved tannin in the bottom of the jar I mixed it in. I put 20 grams in the solution, and I'll bet I could have used 2 grams instead.
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
Charl
Posts: 1901
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: South Africa

Post by Charl »

This looks fantastic Kurt! Very very nice!
caskwith
Posts: 2200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 am

Post by caskwith »

Now that is stunning!!!

I think i may have a go at this myself, better get down to the "hop shop" and see if they have any tannic acid!
Källman
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:15 pm

Post by Källman »

Wow that is amazing. Really nice antique white mixed in with that blackish brown. Iv got some reading to do on using vinegar with dyes...

The last photo says everything.
caskwith
Posts: 2200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 am

Post by caskwith »

I know this might sound a bit cheeky but could you give a more detailed description of how you applied this to the pipe? I went out and got some tannin today and im itching to have a go!!

Cheers
User avatar
KurtHuhn
Site Admin
Posts: 5326
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: United States/Rhode Island

Post by KurtHuhn »

Well, there's not a whole lot to tell. I mixed up a solution of tannin, and started applying it to the wood. I used the old folded over pipe cleaner applicator.
Kurt Huhn
AKA: Oversized Ostrogoth
artisan@k-huhn.com
caskwith
Posts: 2200
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 am

Post by caskwith »

KurtHuhn wrote:Well, there's not a whole lot to tell. I mixed up a solution of tannin, and started applying it to the wood. I used the old folded over pipe cleaner applicator.
So did you just make up a saturated solution of the tannin and it turned the wood black? What about the vinegar, where does that part come in?

Sorry for all the questions but i tried a little bit on a scrap of wood and nothing really happened, although i didnt make a saturated solution of tannin.
Källman
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:15 pm

Post by Källman »

If im not mistaken the reaction between tannin and vinegar is what makes the wood black. Its all there if you read the thread- how to use vinegar and how to apply it all.

Take pictures regardless of results and post them asap as soon as you get something!
Post Reply