finishing: I'm lost...

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:03 pm

OK... I've read on too many threads on here and I am completely lost as to where to start my finishing. This is what I have, could someone help fill in my gaps:

Shaped stummel
Holes drilled
Rusticated portion that I'd like stained black
bare, sanded stummel

Where do staining, carnuba, shelac, lacquer come in and in what order??

I'm so confused...

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:19 am

LOL!

Sorry, this place is supposed to help!

Here is how to finish:

Sand to the highest grit you desire.
Stain
Buff with white compound
Shellac <-- extra, and controversial step
Buff with white compound
Buff with carnauba
Buff with a clean, dry buff

Hope that helps.

Tyler

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:47 am

Tyler, you don't use any brown tripoli? Here is what I have been doing

Sand to 600 or 800 grit
Stain
Tripoli Buff
White Diamond Buff
Carnauba Wax Buff

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:57 am

ArtGuy,

I have used brown tripoli in the past, but lately I have not used it. I haven't noticed it missing in the qualilty of the finish.

Tyler

marks · Post by **marks** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:52 am

Being new to this process, I have been saving my scraps I cut away from each pipe and practice on thin strips with different finishes to see what I like best on that pipe. It adds time to each pipe, but I like to know what a pipe is going to look like before I apply the first coat of stain, and finishing scraps from the piece of wood I made the pipe is the only way I know how to do this, as I do not have lots of experience on which to fall back.

I have found that the brown tripoli can actually add color to the pipe in addition to the stain. I sometimes use it, sometimes don't. It depends on how it looks on the scraps I finish.

Maybe when I have made more pipes, I can skip this step, but right now I do this with every pipe I make.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:50 am

There probably as many ways to finish a pipe as there are pipe makers.

Here's what I do if I want to accentuate a grain a lot:
- sand to 320
- apply black stain
- hand sand all the way up the highest grit
- apply topstain
- buff with brown tripoli
- buff with white compound
- buff with carnuba
- final buff with a clean, dry buff

Sometimes I ust use stain as a guide for what needs to be sanded yet - on some blocks of briar it's easier to see what needs done if color is involved.

Most pipes that are natural finish, I skip the understain - sometimes not. Interesting results can be had from understaining, sanding, then leaving the top natural. The only way to know what looks good, is to do it.

Lately I've been asked for natural pipes, even pipes that otherwise I would stain dark due to haveing uninteresting grain. In that case, the stains are skipped entirely, and I tend to skip the brown tripoli as well.

whitebar · Post by **whitebar** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:51 am

Using scraps is a wonderful idea that really works. A couple of times when I have had a big enough piece left over from trimming on the band saw, I have created a test strip of sorts. On it I tried a number of different stain combinations to see what would look best on the pipe before actually finishing it. I take the test strip through all the finishing stages including wax and final buff. This will give you a very accurate idea of what the final finish will look like on the briar you are working with. Doing this takes a lot of extra time but I have learned a lot from the process which justifies spending the extra time in my mind.

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:02 am

Great post.

Following a similar pattern as Tyler, but with brown tripoli being the first buffing stage.

In regard to the rusticated finishes (Yeah, I know there is another thread on this!) do you still buff the rustication w/ tripoli? Won't that leave residue or buildup in the crevices of the rustication? HELP!!! Also, can't the rustication mess up your buffing wheel or on the other side can't the buffing wheel screw up your rustication by wearing it down (or would that only come from pressing REALLY HARD). Thanks all.

Jeff

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:46 am

Jeff,

Don't buff with a rusticated piece. It'll make a mess! It packs all the crevices and nooks with compound and is a bear to get out. (Don't ask me how I know that.

)

The reason shellac came up in the rustication thread is the very reason that it is so hard to get a shine on the rustication without buffing.

Hope that helps.

Tyler

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:59 am

Sand to the highest grit you desire.
Stain
Buff with white compound
Shellac <-- extra, and controversial step
Buff with white compound
Buff with carnauba
Buff with a clean, dry buff

Is the white compound and shellac (might not do this on my VERY first pipe) and carnauba something I can get localy (Lowe's, Home Depot, Hobby Lobby)? Or should I just order from Pimo??[/quote]

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:23 pm

You can buy it all locally at a Home Depot.

As for the shellac. I would not recommend that for your first pipes. It is not easy to apply well, and is a detail that can be added later. One can get a VERY nice finish without the shellac.

Best,
Tyler

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:51 pm

that's what I wanted to hear!

I'm too stinkin' impatient! I don't want to wait for Pimo to ship something out here

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:08 pm

I have not been able to get carnauba localy but then again we don't have a home depot. I order my finishing compounds from Lee Valley tools. It is really good stuff (thier tripoli is much better than the stuff I bought at ACE.) and thier shipping is quick. They also sell a very clear, very high grade schellac

I use the compounds that come with the Beal Buffing system.

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:37 pm

Oops! Until I read ArtGuy's message I don't notice carnauba in your list!

You won't find that at Home Depot.

Sorry!

Tyler

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:41 pm

Tyler,

So, for rusticated finishes, you apply shellac and then no tripoli or carnauba? I was wondering about the previous post because I thought that it would make quite a mess...at least it did with my practice piece! So, stain, shellac, and....

What about staining, I know that it is difficult to get an even staining, especially if you are not using black. How do you even it out without using the buffing wheel/compound to do that for you?

Thanks for the help so far, I don't want to mess this one up because the rustication turned out incredibly well! Thanks for the tool idea, by the way. It will be a regular part of my carving plans in the future now.

Jeff

Post by **Tyler** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:35 pm

Honestly Jeff, I've never shellaced a rusticated pipe.

Here's how I expect I would do it:

stain -- I like the stain a little uneven
plastic brush wheel to polish the rusticated area
shellac
wax -- melt a little on top with the heat gun. This step might be unnessecary. I don't know since I have never shellaced a rusticated piece

Let me make the disclaimer that shellac is something that is unnecessary and typically only done on very high grade pipes. It is a step that is easily skipped.

To finish a rusticated pipe, all I have ever done is polish with the plastic brush, then melt carnauba into the crevices with a heat gun. Be careful not to get so much carnauba that the crevices fill up with wax. I will look OK for now, but if the crevices are full as the pipe is smoked the wax discolors and looks bad.

Tyler
[/i]

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:23 pm

Tyler (or anyone) this rookie (points to self) needs help. Home Depot, Lowe's, Hobby Lobby, nobody had carnauba wax. Can someone help me with a brand name please? Also by white compound are we talking about ANY white colored wax? For buffing, I read on alt.smokers.pipes that people were talking about buffing by applying the wax to a buffing wheel and applying the wax that way... is that what we're talking about? Should I just sit back and wait for Tyler to put up his buffing section in the pipe making section?

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:33 pm

(chiming in late on this)

Carnuba is something you won't find at (most) any hardware or hobby store. You can get it from Pimo, and Ginny usually ships things out within two days. She also ships via Priority Mail, so it's about a 2-day delivery to my house (Ohio). I suspect that you should get it within 3 days of mailing to just about anywhere.

By white compound, we mean white buffing compound. It's a finer grit than brown tripoli. Last I looked, Lowes didn't have this, but Sears did. Might as well get this from Pimo too, if you're going to place an order there.

Let me add that, Ginny is a doll. Her attention to detail and customer service is second to none.

As far as using the buffing compound, set your buffing wheel spinning and hold the bar of compound against the wheel to "load" the wheel. Just a second or two will suffice. Then you can polish the pipe/stem.

Carnuba is applied to the pipe in the same fashion, except in this case you're trying to leave wax on the pipe. With buffing compound (white or brown) you're not trying to leave compound on the pipe.

The final buff is to even out the coverage of the wax and smooth it out. It's important to keep your buffing wheels seperate - in other words, one wheel for each compound or wax you're going to apply. I have a drawer full of wheels, each one dedicated to a different purpose.

Another plug for Pimo: I highly reccommend Pimo's Guide to Pipe Crafting At Home. It's a book available from Pimo. Yeah, it's expensive, but it's *loaded* with information in one nice referenceable book. It's extremely nice to read when you're just getting started. I still have mine, and I sometimes even read a chapter or two from it to remind me of things.

Jeez, did that sound like a Pimo ad, or what?

obDisclaimer: not affiliated, just a satisfied customer, your mileage may vary, yadda yadda.

marks · Post by **marks** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:43 pm

If you get too much carnuba melted into the crevices, just reheat with a heat gun (or in my case, a hair dryer which takes a lot longer to melt the wax, but does work) and dab with a paper towel or something absorbent like that.

Jeff, that picture of pipe number 7 that I emailed to you is finished with shellac, and nothing else. No buffing, no waxing, etc. Pipe number 2 was finished with wax only - melted onto the pipe. If you look closely at the picture I sent you, you can see what Tyler was talking about with too much wax on the pipe. I have since reheated with a hair dryer and removed the excess. It now looks much better.

Jeffery_Suter · Post by **Jeffery_Suter** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:26 am

I buff out all of my rusticated pipes - Tripoli, and Carnuba, then a clean buff...

Then I will go in and do some hand detail work with a toothpick and do 2-3 dry buffs... I have had wonderful results with this process... A super soft toothbrush also comes in handy...

Yes, it takes time and patience, and might seem like alot of extra time, but like I said, I've had excellent results.

Please note, that this requires a VERY light application of the compounds, and special attention to detail in the "clean up" step...

Hope this helps, give it a try...

Oh, as for shellac, personally, I would stay away from anything that contains toxicity when creating a pipe... remember, briar is essentially a filter for the tobacco, and the "breathing" qualities of the wood are made moot with the process...