sand paper

[Bear]

I've made a few pipes now and have been kind of dissatisfied with the sand paper I'm using. I sand all my pipes by hand from start to finish and it seems I'm not getting the results that I think I should. I'm curious what kind and brand of sand paper others use and how they use it. Espeacially cuirious about the wet sandpaper that I see in the stores. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Ryan]

The problem you might be having is that, most sand paper sold at Lowes and Home Depot are inconsistant. While it may say that it is 400 grit, really its average 400 (grit ranging from 250 to 550). If you go to an auto body shop or painter find out where they get there paper or ask if you can buy some. It will cost more, but its a true consistant grit paper and well worth the money for the higher grit papers.

I wouldnt wet the wood, but the ebonite and lucite should take it nicley. I wet sand my stems just before buffing.

Ryan

[JHowell]

The best paper I've found for hand sanding is Norton 3X. Goes up to 400 grit, does seem to bite better, load up less, and last longer than other brands/types.

Jack

[SimeonTurner]

The best paper I've found for hand sanding is Norton 3X. Goes up to 400 grit, does seem to bite better, load up less, and last longer than other brands/types.

Jack

I was about to say the same thing. I like the "staying power" of the 3x...it just seems to last longer and cut faster. This is either a true observation, or a trick of the mind since that's exactly what their packaging says...maybe I'm just a sheep....

[JHowell]

The best paper I've found for hand sanding is Norton 3X. Goes up to 400 grit, does seem to bite better, load up less, and last longer than other brands/types.

Jack

I was about to say the same thing. I like the "staying power" of the 3x...it just seems to last longer and cut faster. This is either a true observation, or a trick of the mind since that's exactly what their packaging says...maybe I'm just a sheep....

No, it's true. I bought some of the "lasts longer, cuts faster" stuff 3M came out with to compete with the Norton 3X and it's terrible. And black wetordry paper is as sharp, but the grit doesn't hold up as long, plus the paper backing of Norton 3X is more flexible, will conform to tighter curves without creasing.

Jack

[KurtHuhn]

I also like Norton 3X. I keep it around in grits from 220 to 600. It's great for general use sanding. However, for pipes, I won't use anything except Abralon - which is the same abrasive as MicroMesh, just without the insane grit spec. Like MicroMesh, one Abralon sanding pad will last through an entire armada of pipes. I've made somewhere around 25 pipes without having to change out pads.

[SimeonTurner]

where do you get it, Kurt? My interest in piqued.

[kbadkar]

McMaster-Carr has them, of course, I think up to 6", but they're not listed as Abralon (brand name) sanding pads (velcro backed), but they are. I think it was Woodturner's Catalog that had only small ones, 3-4".

[KurtHuhn]

Woodturners catalog has a convenient 3" size that works well for a 3" disc holder:
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store ... alon?Args=
and
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store ... ders?Args=

Larger sizes of Abralon, and different formats like sheets and mesh (called Abranet) are available at few different places like McMaster-Carr, and specialty abrasives houses. The motor arbor and backup pads I have available on my site are designed specifically for the 6" Abralon pads.

I have been considering offering the Abralon pads as well - if there was enough of an interest. It won't be below regular retail from most places, but it would be convenient to get everything in one stop.

Hell, I could even start looking at a source for suitable motors and sell the entire setup as a neat little package mounted up and ready to go. I just don't know if there's that much of a demand for me to start that process.

[Frank]

The problem you might be having is that, most sand paper sold at Lowes and Home Depot are inconsistant.

Ryan

The very worst sandpaper I have ever used was Norton from Home Depot. The abrasives they sell is just about the lowest quality you can get, even the brand name stuff. The suppliers to those places have to bid extremely low to get the contract. For the suppliers to make a profit, they make the sandpaper as cheaply as possible.

I'd suggest buying your abrasives from places like Mc Master-Carr or Tru Grit

[kbadkar]

I wouldn't suggest the small pad set ups from Woodturner's (mine is 4"), since you can only really use less than half the diameter, which is too small for a lot of pipe work. I don't use it anymore for this reason.

I would suggest Kurt's set up! Got one if his adapter deals myself for one of my motors.

Note:
Abralon is a sanding pad, not sand paper.

[Sasquatch]

I use Sia foam backed sandpaper, and it's amazing. It's so much better than the Norton stuff I can't even begin to compare them. Sia makes ridiculously good sandpaper/abrasives.

[ckr]

Norton is decent and I find it available in Home Depot up to 220. The rest I get from Woodcraft, don't remember the brand but it is also decent. The most memorable mistake I made was picking up about 5 variety packs at a local hardware store where the adhesive sucked. I would cut a strip and go to sand something on the lathe and it would literally smooth the paper rather than the wood. True, I would pull the strip of paper away and where it met the wood it was totally void of any "sand". Highly recommended for newbies that have a problem with thin walls.

[Streamline]

The motor arbor and backup pads I have available on my site are designed specifically for the 6" Abralon pads.

I assume that since your backup pad you list on your website is 5" dia that the inch of overhang from the 6" pads allows you to get the tight corners, right? I probably should've thought of that myself.

[KurtHuhn]

I assume that since your backup pad you list on your website is 5" dia that the inch of overhang from the 6" pads allows you to get the tight corners, right? I probably should've thought of that myself.

That's precisely correct. The overhang allows the edge to be flexible and non-aggressive so that subtle details aren't killed, and to reach into very tight corners.

[ToddJohnson]

If I could suggest something slightly different, it would be this. There may be better and worse brands of sandpaper, but it's mostly irrelevant. In my opinion--and I actually swear by my 3M wet/dry silicon carbide paper--the key is consistency. Once you've put a process in place that is efficient and yields excellent results, do not vary it. If it's sanding up to "600" grit with Norton from Home Depot, great. If it's 400 grit 3M sanding wet, cool. Jody does all his sanding with a 1" wide strip of 3M paper and his left pinkie finger . . . seriously, he does. What you're looking for are excellent results in a reasonable amount of time.

TJ

[Sasquatch]

Well, fair enough Todd, but there are certain things a guy can look for in sandpaper that will help to minimize the time no matter what the technique is. Some sandpaper "kernels" are designed to fracture "sharp" which means that the paper doesn't wear out as fast. And cheap paper tends to have a much wider variety of sizes of kernel glued to it, meaning some 120 is going to scratch a lot more than others. As a cabinet maker, you probably know this stuff.

My recommendation of the Sia brand stems from using a lot of different things, 3m, Norton, the usual "what have I got in the drawer today". And the Sia stuff is just absolutely unbelievable. Moving through the grits from 180, 220, 320, 400... just like magic, and by 400 the pipe is totally scratch free and basically ready for the tripoli. It has saved me literally hours.

BUT, being "good" at sanding is indeed also key. Consistent pressure, grain sensitivity, etc probably make for half the battle.

[ToddJohnson]

Well, fair enough Todd, but there are certain things a guy can look for in sandpaper that will help to minimize the time no matter what the technique is. Some sandpaper "kernels" are designed to fracture "sharp" which means that the paper doesn't wear out as fast. And cheap paper tends to have a much wider variety of sizes of kernel glued to it, meaning some 120 is going to scratch a lot more than others. As a cabinet maker, you probably know this stuff.

My recommendation of the Sia brand stems from using a lot of different things, 3m, Norton, the usual "what have I got in the drawer today". And the Sia stuff is just absolutely unbelievable. Moving through the grits from 180, 220, 320, 400... just like magic, and by 400 the pipe is totally scratch free and basically ready for the tripoli. It has saved me literally hours.

BUT, being "good" at sanding is indeed also key. Consistent pressure, grain sensitivity, etc probably make for half the battle.

Yes, and I don't disagree. As I mentioned, there are certainly better and worse brands/types of sandpaper. My only point was to stick with what works and not bother necessarily with what's "highest quality." I know this sounds counter intuitive, but I'm basically just saying, if you're getting from point A to point B with an efficient and affective process, stick with it. I also agree with you that, results being equal, the fastest/cheapest is, by definition, the best. Let me use this Just as an example to illustrate what I'm talking about. I know drill bits well, and can differentiate between a crappy one, a decent one, and a superb one. The one I use for all my mortises is just a decent one. It's a simple 5/16" Vermont American bit available at Lowes or Home Depot. My delrin I source from Mcmaster-Carr. I will never change either the drill bit I use for mortises or the source for my delrin. Why? Because I can be assured that every time I drill a mortise, and every time I insert a delrin tenon, the fit will be perfect. So in this case, the $4 drill bit is the "best" one for the job. As far as brands go, I really like the Japanese stuff Bruce uses, but I can't think of the name. If I'm working in his shop and forget to bring my 3M, I'll use it for sanding stems, but I go home and get my own paper before I do any finishing on the stummel.

TJ

[KurtHuhn]

Huh. Like Todd I have one drill bit that I use for the mortis, and I get all my delrin from a single supplier. Funny how that worked out.

And I agree - the fastest way to achieve a given result is necessarily the best. Part of the reason why I developed the tools and techniques that I use.

[Leus]

What I use is the "Matador" brand. I think they are great.

And +1 on consistency.