New Pipe Artisan! Numerous cries for help!!!

[AAdomeit]

Hi folks! I have a couple of questions, and I'm hoping you can help me out with them!

Firstly, I'm needing another pipe. (I have 2 cheap ones: a 1/2 bent Dr. Grabow, and a Canadian-style Brigham, Select Series). I picked up some black oak (bog oak - 500 years old, Swedish, pitch black), and I'm wondering if it would work. I don't know if, because it is so old (it's been drying since 1999, and had been drying for a year before then, at least), that it would resist scorching, etc. Does anybody know?

And here's some more questions. I'll be looking thorough the forum for the answers as well, but I thought I'd post these up anyway.

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What is the best direction for the grain of the wood? Horizontal (along the length of the stem) or vertical (along the height of the bowl)?

Best shapes for drill bits?

Stems: is it more advisable to use vulcanite (etc.) stems than wooden stems? Would the smoke permeate the wood to an unfortunate degree? Do the juices etc. seep into the wood? When making a wooden stem, would one split the stem in half to carve out the draw tube and then glue the two halves together? Or is it more advisable to use a single piece without laminating? To bend the wood, would you steam it etc? Or could one carve it straight out of the block?

I've seen sketches of pipes: the bowl is often separated from the draw tube (shank?) by a thin wall, through with a thin hole has been drawn. Is this usual? What is the purpose?

[The tools I have to hand is just about anything I can nick out from under
the nose of my old man. 'Course, I might be able to get access to the shop, but I dunno. Files are, by the looks of it, the best bet. Er, I'll try to
convince the purveyor of Bandsaw capabilities to allow me to hook it up. It would be a lot of work to use a hand saw to rough out the design!]

Is black oak too soft?

What would be best for stems? How can filters be incorporated? (One of the best filters is a Canadian brand, Brigham. It uses a suction system - do a web search for it...)

Also: What is the best way to make full bent and 1/4 bent pipes? Drilling, I mean.

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Thank you very much for your time. I hope to hear from you soon.

Ambjorn Adomeit

[AAdomeit]

Well, it's a lot like Morta, but not quite. This stuff isn't rock. I think Love Geiger got confused too, when I "spoke" to him. Er, that's what I have to say to that! I'm fond of the bulldog configuration, and I'm enamoured with 1/2 bent and 3/4 bent pipes.

The description I was talking about was the Seattle Pipe Club's 2001 Club Pipe. Er, I have a picture, but I don't know if it would work here.

(These are hosted on Image Shack, and I don't know if they'll display)




And that's from the SPC website.

Others have been just drilled straight through, without different sized draw tubes being drilled. I don't know if I'm explaining this properly.

[stdly]

domeit wrote:

I've seen sketches of pipes: the bowl is often separated from the draw tube (shank?) by a thin wall, through with a thin hole has been drawn. Is this usual? What is the purpose?

I was talking to Michael Parks about this I believe. He said one of the makers told him he was experimenting with this on full bents to keep the draft hole on entrance to the bowl a smaller hole than would be acheived buy drilling directly into the bowl on an angle.

I think he was drilling a 1/32 or so over from the norm away from the bowl then using a tool from inside the bowl to make a small hole to join the two.

I hope I explained that right!

[AAdomeit]

I thought as much.

What is the best way to drill a bent pipe? I doubt I'll ever make a full bent (I'm not fond of them) but 1/2 - 3/4 - 2/3 bent pipes are likely in the works (and straight shanks are easy enough to drill). I'm not sure how to drill them so that the pipe cleaner can get through easily, and without allowing liquid to pool in a divot.

I saw a mention of a flexible tube drill bit, but that looks a little complicated, to say the least!!!!!!

[AAdomeit]

Also: I'm preparing a proposal for a small business loan, and I'd like some information, if you professionals could give me a hand

1. Overhead: what are the costs for starting out? I have files and a small bandsaw, so that's not necessary (and a full blacksmith's shop...) Necessary drill bits and assorted mandatory tools?

2. Turnover: what are the best bets to sell pipes for a beginner? Farmer's markets? Promoting here ? Getting fellow artisans to buy pipes from the beginner? Etc.

3. Profit: what are resonable expectations for a beginning pipemaker for profit/# of pipes to be sold per annum, etc.?

Obviously, I'm very intregued at the whole idea, and very inspired by the work of the established pipe makers on this forum and elsewhere.

I've had some thoughts about materials and such (focussing on briar, obviously) and products. I'm artistically oriented (I've been published in a national magazine for my sculpting!) and pipe racks and tampers would be a breeze. Maybe organizing a deal with a tobacconist to supply a 2oz. tin of tobaccy with a new pipe, etc. kind of thing, but...

Any help you can give me is appreciated to no end!

[KurtHuhn]

Also: I'm preparing a proposal for a small business loan, and I'd like some information, if you professionals could give me a hand

A loan? To start a pipemaking business? Now I've heard it all....

1. Overhead: what are the costs for starting out? I have files and a small bandsaw, so that's not necessary (and a full blacksmith's shop...) Necessary drill bits and assorted mandatory tools?

Buffers, lathes (wood and metal), motors for sanding discs, drill press, tobacco chamber bits, tapered bits, straight bits, etc, etc, etc. If you plan on hitting big-time production, you might consider a fraising machine.

2. Turnover: what are the best bets to sell pipes for a beginner? Farmer's markets? Promoting here ? Getting fellow artisans to buy pipes from the beginner? Etc.

There is no hard and fast answer. Sell where you can, when you can.

3. Profit: what are resonable expectations for a beginning pipemaker for profit/# of pipes to be sold per annum, etc.?

How good at marketing are you? There is no reasonable expectation. Bo sells about 50 pipes a year and has a backlog a mile long - last I heard. Some makers make many times that, and never gross the same dollar figure.

I've had some thoughts about materials and such (focussing on briar, obviously) and products. I'm artistically oriented (I've been published in a national magazine for my sculpting!) and pipe racks and tampers would be a breeze. Maybe organizing a deal with a tobacconist to supply a 2oz. tin of tobaccy with a new pipe, etc. kind of thing, but...

Most makers go slow and build up a reputation via word-of-mouth - much the same as any other artist. It takes anywhere from a few months to several years to build up a steady income, and it all depends on your skill and your artistic ability - as well as your ability to get pipes in the hands of the right people.

Could it be done as a "startup business", I suppose so. However, you'd be prone to dot-bombing it pretty hard if you decided to go full bore and focus on it to the exclusion of other income. Just as Random how difficult that is....

[AAdomeit]

That might be what I have to do. I'm in university now (history major), and my financial backer is a little piece. Go figure, he's also my dad.

I have no cash to start (none! ) so.... black oak 1/4 bend bulldog with purchaced, pre-manufactured stem, and that's about all I can do, if that. *sigh* It sucks not being able to hold a job while going to school...

[Tyler]

Also: I'm preparing a proposal for a small business loan, and I'd like some information, if you professionals could give me a hand

I would advise against a loan. Debt is very often a bad idea, and to go into it to start something about which one is inexperienced is a recipe for trouble. Be patient and build up to the tools you need.

1. Overhead: what are the costs for starting out? I have files and a small bandsaw, so that's not necessary (and a full blacksmith's shop...) Necessary drill bits and assorted mandatory tools?

This is hard to answer because there are so many ways to accomplish the making of a pipe. On a super-tight budget, one could be making pipes for about $700 maybe, but you would reach the limits of your tools VERY quickly. You would also be in a constant state of ordering a few blocks of briar at a time, making pipes, selling them, and buying a few more blocks of briar. I'd say that to get decent tools you'd need at least $2K, and, if you wanted to go the best route, you'd need about $5K. That said, I have all the tools I need right now and I could EASILY spend $5K tomorow to upgrade and add to my tools and supplies.

2. Turnover: what are the best bets to sell pipes for a beginner? Farmer's markets? Promoting here ? Getting fellow artisans to buy pipes from the beginner? Etc.

Other Intnernet forums such as the newsgroup alt.smokers.pipes and knox cigar are going to be the best places to start. You will not find that other artisans will do much buying from you, and I'd be surprised if any farmers' markets would be receptive to relatively expensive pipes (or pipes in general).

3. Profit: what are resonable expectations for a beginning pipemaker for profit/# of pipes to be sold per annum, etc.?

Impossible to say. The price one can charge for one's pipes is almost completely dependent upon aesthetics. The prettier you can make your pipes, the more money you can make. Let it be noted though that marketing is also a critical aspect of this whole process, and time in the game is a big factor with marketing.

I am not trying to discourage you, or anyone else, from pipe making. Nothing could be further from the truth, actually, as is proved by this forum. My reason for the creation of this forum is to help folks join the ranks of pipe makers. That said, I want to be helpful and tell the truth, and wanting to jump into pipe making with the intent to make money from the get-go is a difficult proposition. I recommend that you take it slow and build up to possibly selling your pipes.

Tyler

[sagiter]

I will agree that ASP and Knoxville are a decent place to start but I can tell you that this market dries up real fast. If you don't push and market your pipes to a greater community than those you are bound to fail. I don't know of one pipe maker making mid to high grade pipes or any other pipe realted market that counts ASP or Knoxville or the Yahoo groups as more than 10% of their sales and many don't reach that level. These groups are domintaed by those folks who wil tell you that your pipes are nice (even if they are not) and expound on your great designs (even if they are not) while buying Savinellis and Stanwells. Real sales and $$ are out in the world past the boundaries of these groups.

Neil

[jeff]

AAdomeit wrote:
Also: I'm preparing a proposal for a small business loan, and I'd like some information, if you professionals could give me a hand


I would advise against a loan. Debt is very often a bad idea, and to go into it to start something about which one is inexperienced is a recipe for trouble. Be patient and build up to the tools you need.

While I initially wanted to make an immediate post on this thread, I have hesitated to allow some of the more experienced members comment first. I would like to reiterate what Tyler said. Red flags went up when you mentioned a loan. I cannot possibly emphasize how much I would like to discourage you from doing this. I began making pipes last Christmas with less than $100 worth of equipment. Since then I've been able to tool up a bit as my skills and knowledge advanced and as I began to see a potential niche for my pipes in the market.

In response to your second question about what tools to buy, I can give you an idea of what I started with and what I now use. When I began making pipes I had nothing other than a dremel, a cheap drill press ($28 from an online wholesaler of dirt cheap imported tools), some borrowed spade bits (which can easily be handmade from store-bought hole bits), and 3 six-inch buffing wheels + compound. That's all you need, toolwise, to begin making pipes. Practice, practice, practice. When you feel like you are ready to move up to the next level, you should consider buying an inexpensive benchtop lathe from harbor freight or a higher-quality (but smaller) lathe by Taig or Sherline. Take your time, study pipe shapes. Spend a lot of time in the forums here asking questions and searching old threads for the wealth of knowledge that they hold. For your first few pipes you may even be able to forego the drill press and buy a few predrilled blocks from Mark Tinsky or Tim West (see Tyler's materials links on this site). You might find after a few pipes that you don't really enjoy it, or it's not really something that is compatible with your skill set. It would certainly be better to discover this prior to submerging yourself in debt to buy tools. Just take your time. You're still in school, focus on that and make pipes for fun on the side. This can be a pretty difficult industry to succeed in, so I cannot emphasize more the importance of patience.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask here in the forums or send an email to some of the more experienced pipemakers here. I don't think that anyone would oppose sharing some of their wisdom and knowledge with you.

Happy Carving,

Jeff

[AAdomeit]

I am currently weeping - fat guys crying is tantamount to a cherry blushing. Horrible to watch...

My father was the one that I needed to borrow money from. I can't hold a job (I'm up in oil country, and you need an IQ of a squashed apricot and a back that is willing to be broken three times a week to get or keep a job. Having a university education, I am undesireable for work. Largely because I don't take orders well!), and so I couldn't apply to a bank. Or save the money....*sigh*

I'm going to have to wait for a while (until I'm in Scotland in a couple of years, I think. Unless Steve wants to meet next year when I'm going to Queen's University...) to do any pipe stuff I was enjoying this. I can't even afford the briar.

It all goes to beer!

[TreverT]

Well, my first business loan for the pipe biz was $15K, BUT that was after-

making pipes part-time and then semi-professionally for 5 years
winning the P&T pipemaking contest for international publicity
designing my own website and investing time in promotion and marketing
etc etc

For my first couple of years, my shop was a drill press and a two x four on a pair of sawhorses with a bench grinder motor bolted to it, and a Dremel. I made quite a few pipes with no better tools than that, often freezing in the cold garage in the wintertime (before investing the money for a shop heater) in three coats and gloves. Buy some pre-drilled kits and make the pipes first. Make at least 30 pipes and see if you still like it, and what people think of them, THEN maybe start thinking about actually getting into the business and so forth. I can't even count how many guys I've known who have put the cart way before the horse out of google-eyed fascination at what a "fun" job it must be and "Hey, look at all the cool stuff I could play with all day!" Focus on making the pipes first with what minimal tools you can scrape together, get good at it, then later you can think about living the romantic lifestyle of an artisan (said with great big grin). Oh, and don't get a family loan, get one from a bank. As my dad very wisely said, if your business proposal isn't solid enough to convince a bank to give you money, it probably isn't a good business plan.

Am I harsh? Please don't take this personally as I don't mean to smack you, I'm simply trying to provide some crucial cautions.

[AAdomeit]

I'm black and blue, Tyler!

That's good advice actually. I'm going to have to remember that!