80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon...
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80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon...
Dear PipeGods --
Not smart assery, but an honest question:
There is ZERO advantage in terms of labor, tools, or materials in making a mortise & tenon smaller than what's correct for a pipe, so WHY do so many of the Scand guys do it?
I've lost count of the number of these I've fixed over the years. This one is Bang'$ top grade minus one click (B), weighs 80 grams, and had a Dunhill Group 1-sized tenon. Unreinforced. Big surprise that it let go only days into its smoking life. Not.
There's no doubt they're aware of it, too, because they get pinged routinely when it happens. Then they say, "We don't do repairs."
Confusedly Yours,
le Moi
Not smart assery, but an honest question:
There is ZERO advantage in terms of labor, tools, or materials in making a mortise & tenon smaller than what's correct for a pipe, so WHY do so many of the Scand guys do it?
I've lost count of the number of these I've fixed over the years. This one is Bang'$ top grade minus one click (B), weighs 80 grams, and had a Dunhill Group 1-sized tenon. Unreinforced. Big surprise that it let go only days into its smoking life. Not.
There's no doubt they're aware of it, too, because they get pinged routinely when it happens. Then they say, "We don't do repairs."
Confusedly Yours,
le Moi
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
That's job security for you, my friend.
"No reserves, no retreats, no regrets"
"When you're dumb...you've got to be tough." - my dad
"When you're dumb...you've got to be tough." - my dad
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
Except I HATE that particular task with a vengeance. Endlessly fussy, and unforgiving in the extreme. Plus, the work-holding requirements can be nuts. (Take the above example: how would you clamp/immobilize that stem without marring it, while maintaining perfect axial alignment AND be adjustable side-to-side + back-and-forth?)
Remember, no do-overs.
Remember, no do-overs.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
- sandahlpipe
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
The only possible reason I could think of would be that then the tenon, not the shank is the weakest link. But even then, 1/4" integral tenons seem like they'd be too flimsy no matter what. If I have to go that thin, I prefer the strength of delrin.
I am curious how you manage workholding for a tenon replacement on a tapered stem like that.
I am curious how you manage workholding for a tenon replacement on a tapered stem like that.
Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
Perhaps the reasoning could be that minuscule tenons allow more real estate for those polished shank faces?
Ryan Richardson
R2 Pipes/Ryan's Luxury Goods
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"You can't convince a stupid person that what he's doing is stupid, because the stupidness inside him is telling him that it's smart"
R2 Pipes/Ryan's Luxury Goods
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"You can't convince a stupid person that what he's doing is stupid, because the stupidness inside him is telling him that it's smart"
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
sandahlpipe wrote: I am curious how you manage workholding for a tenon replacement on a tapered stem like that.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
What was I thinking? OF COURSE that's it! (now I feel like an idjit)Ratimus wrote:Perhaps the reasoning could be that minuscule tenons allow more real estate for those polished shank faces?
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
Are they always exactly the same size? Maybe it's a consistency thing.
99% of my pipes have a 6mm tenon.
99% of my pipes have a 6mm tenon.
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
. 23"caskwith wrote:Are they always exactly the same size? Maybe it's a consistency thing.
99% of my pipes have a 6mm tenon.
Possibilities:
A) You're actually from Daneland and are only pretending to be English
B) You reinforce them with a tube/sleeve
C) 95% of the peeps you make are teeny weenie
D) You're pulling my chain
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
I have been using 6mm acetal tenons for almost 10 years, never had a tenon break and since I started threading them I have never had a tenon pull out either. No tube or reinforcement. I make some small pipes but I have used them even on magnum/mini mag sized pipes as well. Probably 80% of my pipes are a group 3-4.
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
Is "acetal" Britspeak for Delrin?
If so, that would explain not breaking.
On a magnum-sized pipe, though? It's also quite flexible.
If so, that would explain not breaking.
On a magnum-sized pipe, though? It's also quite flexible.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
- oklahoma red
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
Delrin was a DuPont trademark. It has pretty much become a generic term as there are now many different manufacturers since DuPont invented it in '53.LatakiaLover wrote:Is "acetal" Britspeak for Delrin?
If so, that would explain not breaking.
On a magnum-sized pipe, though? It's also quite flexible.
Acetal comes in part from its chemical makeup (think acetic acid). Back in the day when I had an injection molding machine the crap would run everyone out of the shop from the fumes it gives off when it's hot. Big use over the years has been for internal parts in washer-less faucets.
Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
Delrin is a branded version of acetal (with it's own properties). The stuff I buy is slightly harder than standard delrin, machines better and isn't so slippery. I found some issues using delrin that were solved by switching to acetal. It also happens to take glue a little better, though that doesn't matter for me since my tenons are threaded anyway.
I have not found it to be a problem on large pipes, yes there is flex in the tenon as you would expect, but when you have a large shank face this gives it all the stability it needs. In fact any size shank face down to about 12mm gives it plenty of support when pushed all the way in. Under 12mm I switch to using 4mm stainless tubing as reverse tenons anyway.
There is really only one time where using 6mm tenons causes me an issue, heavily bent shapes like an Oom Paul. I have had to use a large tenon at times for those pipes, but I make them so rarely it's not really a problem.
Of course this is really just a personal preference thing, I am not touting 6mm tenons to be superior, I just wanted to standardise my tenons as much as possible and I chose 6mm because it worked well for me and was small enough that it let me safely make shanks down to 12mm even on Morta.
I have not found it to be a problem on large pipes, yes there is flex in the tenon as you would expect, but when you have a large shank face this gives it all the stability it needs. In fact any size shank face down to about 12mm gives it plenty of support when pushed all the way in. Under 12mm I switch to using 4mm stainless tubing as reverse tenons anyway.
There is really only one time where using 6mm tenons causes me an issue, heavily bent shapes like an Oom Paul. I have had to use a large tenon at times for those pipes, but I make them so rarely it's not really a problem.
Of course this is really just a personal preference thing, I am not touting 6mm tenons to be superior, I just wanted to standardise my tenons as much as possible and I chose 6mm because it worked well for me and was small enough that it let me safely make shanks down to 12mm even on Morta.
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Re: 80 gram super-premium pipe, .250" non-reinforced tenon..
LatakiaLover wrote:sandahlpipe wrote: I am curious how you manage workholding for a tenon replacement on a tapered stem like that.
I know how he does it. But I was sworn to secrecy before he let me into his shop for the first time. It was one of those old school Masonic Lodge ritual type deals too....I'm bound by blood
Am I Calamity Jane or Annie Oakley??...depends on the day.
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