What comes first?

[Tano]

Hi guys,

Aside from commissioned work, how do you start the process? Do you choose a block and find the pipe in it, or do you have a pre- conceived idea of what the final pipe will look like (draw it on paper first) then choose the block?

[KurtHuhn]

Most time I get an idea for a pipe, then hunt down the block that I think will make that pipe. There have been times I've just grabbed a block and made a pipe that fits the grain and shape of the block too.

Either way, it pays to be flexible in terms of the end result, since you never know what's in the wood.

[bscofield]

I have also done both, but more frequently draw out the pipe first, then find the block and work on it accordingly.

Let me offer a counter point to Kurt's. I frequently changed my designs based on the block while shaping. I agree with Kurt that this can be valuable- however- this did me no favors. I have learned more and increased my skills (You know, like nunchuck skills, bowhunting skills, computer hacking skills...) by following through with a design than I ever would have just following my whims. IMO, this goes right along with what the pro's on here have been saying in terms of learning to make a classic. There's something to be said for the discipline that is gained when you force yourself to stay withing the designated lines.

That is just my experience, but I whole heartedly agree with what's being said here recently in terms of learning to make the classics before branching out... learn to color inside the lines first.

[kbadkar]

If I may, let me offer a counterpoint to Ben's...

Coloring between the lines is boring. When starting out, concentrating on proper drilling technique, fit and function, perfecting hand-cut stems with clean airways, getting a nice finish, etc. is rigorous enough exercise. Shaping is the fun part! Don't kill the spirit with 100 obligatory billiards!

I'm going to wait until I no longer enjoy just creating shapes (adhering to design or depending on grain, flaws) before I subject myself to a strict regimen of classics, if at all. I don't believe it is entirely necessary, though perhaps a good exercise.

I know this is an ongoing debate and one I'm going to lose when all the pros chime in. But I think the very same pros have all gone through the free-wheeling stage, but forgot it was an important part of their development. Rad used to be a Danish freeform guy, for example, before he discovered his affinity for more classic shapes. Honestly, what pro's here started exclusively on classics before they had some fun with their own inventiveness? Isn't that why most pipe makers start in on the craft... because they want to create, not imitate. Tolstoy wrote, you can't teach art, you can only teach the imitation of art.

[bscofield]

I don't believe it is entirely necessary, though perhaps a good exercise.

I think that is all that is being said, really.

Honestly, what pro's here started exclusively on classics before they had some fun with their own inventiveness?

<sarcasm>Ding ding ding!</sarcasm>:twisted:

And the same pro's look back on it and tell us it wasn't the way to go!

Sorry - I'm not trying to start the debate again... I just thought it was too ironic to pass up

[Frank]

I don't believe it is entirely necessary, though perhaps a good exercise.

I think that is all that is being said, really.

Honestly, what pro's here started exclusively on classics before they had some fun with their own inventiveness?

<sarcasm>Ding ding ding!</sarcasm>:twisted:

And the same pro's look back on it and tell us it wasn't the way to go!

Sorry - I'm not trying to start the debate again... I just thought it was too ironic to pass up

Perhap it's a case of Life imitates Art imitates Life: Sow your wild oats.... Get serious about life.... Realise WTF, there's still fun to be had - sow some more freestyle wild oats, but actually know what you're doing this time around!

OK, I'm only kidding so exnay telling The Boss I wrote this.

[FredS]

Perhap it's a case of Life imitates Art imitates Life: Sow your wild oats.... Get serious about life.... Realise WTF, there's still fun to be had - sow some more freestyle wild oats, but actually know what you're doing this time around!

Pipe making aside, you just encapsulated my life in one line!

[KurtHuhn]

Let me offer a counter point to Kurt's. I frequently changed my designs based on the block while shaping. I agree with Kurt that this can be valuable- however- this did me no favors.

Actually, I agree.

What I have found over the years is that I need to be flexible in terms of minute movements here and there, but without straying too far from my intent. If a block shows a horrible flaw on the inside, it might be worth it to work around that flaw - or you might end up with an ugly-assed pipe.

I actually suggest doing it both ways. Try following through one time when that happens, and just make the pipe you set out to make - never mind the flaw. Then try working around the flaw, and see if you can still make a decent looking pipe. Just to see what comes of it. Either way, I think you learn something from the process, and when a flaw pops up the next time, you'll know better whether to follow through and rusticate, or try to work around the flaw and get a smooth.

[bscofield]

Let me offer a counter point to Kurt's. I frequently changed my designs based on the block while shaping. I agree with Kurt that this can be valuable- however- this did me no favors.

Actually, I agree.

What I have found over the years is that I need to be flexible in terms of minute movements here and there, but without straying too far from my intent. If a block shows a horrible flaw on the inside, it might be worth it to work around that flaw - or you might end up with an ugly-assed pipe.

I actually suggest doing it both ways. Try following through one time when that happens, and just make the pipe you set out to make - never mind the flaw. Then try working around the flaw, and see if you can still make a decent looking pipe. Just to see what comes of it. Either way, I think you learn something from the process, and when a flaw pops up the next time, you'll know better whether to follow through and rusticate, or try to work around the flaw and get a smooth.

Agreed... to me, and the way my brain works, "following the block" is no substitute for following the plan, in terms of learning. With the "following the block or grain" technique it can easily become a cop-out for me, while the other is making the wood do what I want (this is the learning part). Making the wood my bitch, if you will. In the long run- when I see a shape in the wood I will be better equipped to bring that shape out of the wood because I'm skilled at making the wood my bitch. And, as Kurt stated, sometimes the shape that was "in the block" is as ugly as sin!

Next time someone starts a thread with this kind of question I think it should be worded:

Do you make the block your bitch or does it make you it's bitch?

[KurtHuhn]

And did anyone wear leather pants in the process?

[bscofield]

And did anyone wear leather pants in the process?

Calm down big fella... it's figurative!

[kbadkar]

Uh-oh, here come the cookies and olive oil...

[Frank]

And did anyone wear leather pants in the process?

Calm down big fella... it's figurative!

The Oversized Ostrogoth prefers the literal. Nobody has the guts to tell him just how weird he looks wearing Lederhosen with butt cheek cutouts.

[KurtHuhn]

OMG!!!

[FredS]

And did anyone wear leather pants in the process?

Calm down big fella... it's figurative!

The Oversized Ostrogoth prefers the literal. Nobody has the guts to tell him just how weird he looks wearing Lederhosen with butt cheek cutouts.

He'd look right at home in this guys shop.

[bscofield]

I'm soooo confused now. I thought that *was* Kurt...