Rhodesian "Che"

[maxmil]

This pipe is dedicated to Ernesto Guevara "Che".
Best regards.
Félix

Esta pipa se la dedico a Ernesto Guevara "Che".
Saludos.
Félix

[CACooper]

Question:

Very nice pipe, but why on earth would you want to "dedicate" it to a murderous monster like Che Guevara? Might as well dedicate a pipe to Adolf Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, etc.

Seriously, read up on history. Here's an interesting bio to get you started:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/COLDguevara.htm

Guevara was no saint, he publicly executed hundreds of people, including innocent children to further his cause of revolution. Pease don't idolize a cold blooded murderer by dedicating a pipe to him.

Che Guevara should rot in Hell. It just infuriates me when folks fawn over this bastard as some kind of "hero".

Again, beautiful pipe.

CACooper

[maxmil]

Yes, all that, plus a revolutionary idealist. It is a matter of opinion.

Question:

Very nice pipe, but why on earth would you want to "dedicate" it to a murderous monster like Che Guevara? Might as well dedicate a pipe to Adolf Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, etc.

Seriously, read up on history. Here's an interesting bio to get you started:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/COLDguevara.htm

Guevara was no saint, he publicly executed hundreds of people, including innocent children to further his cause of revolution. Pease don't idolize a cold blooded murderer by dedicating a pipe to him.

Che Guevara should rot in Hell. It just infuriates me when folks fawn over this bastard as some kind of "hero".

Again, beautiful pipe.

CACooper

[CACooper]

Saw this on a T-shirt.



Perfect.

CACooper

[the rev]

and many people all over the world could make the same shirt with uncle sam on it. It is all a matter of perspective. We interpret an even as "a stray missile accidently hit a hospital causing unfortunate collateral damage, which is a direct result of terrorists hiding amongst civilian population" How do you think they write that same incident up? I would dare say it would sound much different. Probably like this, "the occupying army of imperialist americans fired a missile into a hospital murdering 24 innocent children"

History is written and interpreted by the victors remember. I too have a problem with Che's celebrity, but I do not think it is black and white as you do. I believe that the true heroes of central and south americas fight for freedome would be people like Oscar Romero.

rev

[maxmil]

This is so lively that I put next to the "Comandante Fidel".

Esto está tan animado que a la próxima le pongo "Comandante Fidel".

[CACooper]

Oh, I forgot. Blame America first. Got it. I stand corrected.

I'm starting work on my Klu Klux Klan commemorative set of pipes. Hey, the Klan had some great ideas in the beginning. Then they got a bad rep. Depends on your point of view or who is writing the history, eh?

Good day gents. Keep makin' those pipes.

CACooper

P.S. By the way, for the record, I'm NOT really doing a KKK set of pipes. Just trying to make a point. Murderers are murderers, any way you look at them.

End of comments for me. Getting too hot in here.

[the rev]

Who said anything about blame america first? What I was pointing out was that depending upon your perspective you will see things differently. I also very clearly said I was uncomfortable with the celebrity of Che, and suggested a non violent hero in Oscar Romero.

rev

[e Markle]

Very nice pipe, but why on earth would you want to "dedicate" it to a murderous monster like Che Guevara? [...] Guevara was no saint, he publicly executed hundreds of people, including innocent children to further his cause of revolution.

+1

It surprises me how many people respect him. He was a murderer.

Me sorprende la cantidad de gente quien le estima a Che. El fue asesino.

[RadDavis]

A lot of college students in the 60s idolized Che, and had posters on their dorm room walls. I think the reason was that he was a "revolutionary". They had no idea what that entailed.

Rad

[e Markle]

Knuckleheads RAD, knuckleheads.

[The Smoking Yeti]

This is all hippie talk.

[the rev]

Like I said, when you see things from a different perspective you can at least understand things differently. In the minds of many latino people Che was someone who left a wealthy privileged background in order to fight for the rights of the poor and marginalized. He gave his life for the working class people. Now it is easy to sit back in America, and either idolize Che, or demonize him. I think both of those responses are actually incomplete. I will say again, when it comes to those that fought for the liberation of southern and central america, it is the non violent witness of those like Oscar Romero that I think should be on t-shirts not Che

rev

[maxmil]

Like I said, when you see things from a different perspective you can at least understand things differently. In the minds of many latino people Che was someone who left a wealthy privileged background in order to fight for the rights of the poor and marginalized. He gave his life for the working class people. Now it is easy to sit back in America, and either idolize Che, or demonize him. I think both of those responses are actually incomplete. I will say again, when it comes to those that fought for the liberation of southern and central america, it is the non violent witness of those like Oscar Romero that I think should be on t-shirts not Che

rev

[Walle]

Comrade ( ) Félix!

The pipe is simply beautyful. Che would not have deserved it, though, I'm afraid.
I like the discussion, too. Very "dialectic".
It's good to learn that showing pictures of Che and Fidel seems not to be a legal offence in the US.

Cheerio!
Walle

P.S. @ rev: Good points!

[maxmil]

Comrade Walle, Right.
A hug.
Félix

though, I'm afraid.
I like the discussion, too. Very "dialectic".

[RadDavis]

Comrade ( ) Félix!

The pipe is simply beautyful. Che would not have deserved it, though, I'm afraid.
I like the discussion, too. Very "dialectic".
It's good to learn that showing pictures of Che and Fidel seems not to be a legal offence in the US.

Cheerio!
Walle

P.S. @ rev: Good points!

Generalissimo Wallenstein!! Are you coming to Chicago this year?

Rad

[Sorringowl]

I think this is a beautiful pipe, and, whether you like Che or not, or consider him a saint or a devil, I think, is secondary. Also, like it or not, he was a pipe smoker, and I think--or, at least, this is how I interpret it--it is more in that vain, that Felix has dedicated this pipe to Che.

Now, I don't mean to speak for Felix, whether to justify his actions or explain his intent, etc., and I don't think it necessary to do so. And I don't profess to know his personal feelings regarding Guevara (and forgive me, Felix, if I am interpreting your intention incorrectly) and, honestly, I don't care to. That's his business. But that is not the point. My point is, gentlemen, this is an object of art and as such, it is open to interpretation. My personal interpretation, when I look at this pipe (besides that it's beautiful) is, "that looks exactly like a pipe that Che would smoke." Also, when I look at this pipe, to me, it embodies certain qualities of the man himself (robust, complex, elegant, even, and somewhat imposing--all qualities that, to me, objectively, are neutral, and present in many human beings--good and bad) . Nothing more, nothing less. To me, that it is dedicated to someone, and that it embodies certain qualities of that person, just makes it more interesting.

Now, if Che Guevara never existed, it would still be a beautiful pipe, but, I don't know (and maybe I'm reading into it too deeply), dedicating a pipe to a historical figure (even one so controversial as Che), gives it a certain, shall we say, story. And behind every interesting work of art is a good story (whether you like that story or not).

Personally (and I know I'm gonna' get a lot of crap for this) I would love to see a pipe dedicated to Fidel! Now, do I think he's a swell guy? Hell, no! But, if you were to look at someone like Fidel, over the span of his life (his intentions as a young revolutionary--his rise to power--his crushing dictatorship--his faltering as an aging man) and take all of that and use it as the inspiration for a pipe. Well, hell, I'd like to see that. That would be one interesting pipe!

I just like the idea of pipes that, in some way, reflect certain qualities of things in nature (in this case, a historical figure, a man, both beloved by some and vilified by others). The same goes for Felix's other pipes that use inspiration from nature. I wouldn't look at a pipe he made, that was inspired by, say, a squash, and say, "Felix, I hate squash! You shouldn't have dedicated a pipe to it. Squash is a disgusting vegetable!" I joke, of course, and, maybe, in this case, that's too simple an analogy, and somewhat unfair, and believe me, I understand the negative reaction to so strong a figure, but, I think Rev is right, it's just a matter of interpretation.

In any case, and, as always, beautiful work, Felix. Bravo.

[Matt]

i like the pipe, but; who are we to judje who this man looks up to?

[maxmil]

First of all thank you for such a wonderful review and I apologize for the bad English, but the translator's fault, not mine Goolgle.
Indeed, the pipe has to be analyzed keeping aside political ideas of each, is to analyze the pipe and not the character to whom I dedicate, which in this case was also a pipe smoker.
I promise to develop a dedicated Fidel.
A big hug.
Felix

Ante todo te doy las gracias por tan magnífica crítica y te pido disculpas por el mal ingles, aunque es culpa del traductor de Goolgle y no mía.
Efectivamente, la pipa ha de analizarse manteniendo al margen las idéas políticas de cada uno, consiste en analizar la pipa y no al personaje a quien se la dedico, que en este caso era, además, fumador de pipa.
Te prometo elaborar una dedicada al Comandante Fidel.
Un fuerte abrazo.
Félix

I think this is a beautiful pipe, and, whether you like Che or not, or consider him a saint or a devil, I think, is secondary. Also, like it or not, he was a pipe smoker, and I think--or, at least, this is how I interpret it--it is more in that vain, that Felix has dedicated this pipe to Che.

Now, I don't mean to speak for Felix, whether to justify his actions or explain his intent, etc., and I don't think it necessary to do so. And I don't profess to know his personal feelings regarding Guevara (and forgive me, Felix, if I am interpreting your intention incorrectly) and, honestly, I don't care to. That's his business. But that is not the point. My point is, gentlemen, this is an object of art and as such, it is open to interpretation. My personal interpretation, when I look at this pipe (besides that it's beautiful) is, "that looks exactly like a pipe that Che would smoke." Also, when I look at this pipe, to me, it embodies certain qualities of the man himself (robust, complex, elegant, even, and somewhat imposing--all qualities that, to me, objectively, are neutral, and present in many human beings--good and bad) . Nothing more, nothing less. To me, that it is dedicated to someone, and that it embodies certain qualities of that person, just makes it more interesting.

Now, if Che Guevara never existed, it would still be a beautiful pipe, but, I don't know (and maybe I'm reading into it too deeply), dedicating a pipe to a historical figure (even one so controversial as Che), gives it a certain, shall we say, story. And behind every interesting work of art is a good story (whether you like that story or not).

Personally (and I know I'm gonna' get a lot of crap for this) I would love to see a pipe dedicated to Fidel! Now, do I think he's a swell guy? Hell, no! But, if you were to look at someone like Fidel, over the span of his life (his intentions as a young revolutionary--his rise to power--his crushing dictatorship--his faltering as an aging man) and take all of that and use it as the inspiration for a pipe. Well, hell, I'd like to see that. That would be one interesting pipe!

I just like the idea of pipes that, in some way, reflect certain qualities of things in nature (in this case, a historical figure, a man, both beloved by some and vilified by others). The same goes for Felix's other pipes that use inspiration from nature. I wouldn't look at a pipe he made, that was inspired by, say, a squash, and say, "Felix, I hate squash! You shouldn't have dedicated a pipe to it. Squash is a disgusting vegetable!" I joke, of course, and, maybe, in this case, that's too simple an analogy, and somewhat unfair, and believe me, I understand the negative reaction to so strong a figure, but, I think Rev is right, it's just a matter of interpretation.

In any case, and, as always, beautiful work, Felix. Bravo.