Pricing

[wmolaw]

You haven't already seen enough pictures of ugly pipes by novices? I will post some when I get to the point that it does not take half a page to give all the advice it would provoke.

Had a look at the listing and I think it would be wise to post photos of your pipes here. The guys on this forum can help you get better fast by helping you see the things that you cannot and by providing valuable tips to shaping, engineering, and finishing.

99% of the information that I use on a daily basis was gleaned from conversations, old threads, and individuals on this forum.

The pipe you're selling isn't bad. There is no such thing as bad or good in pipemaking. There is only what works and what doesn't work. That pipe you're selling doesn't work for a lot of reasons. If you want to learn what does work, give yourself a shortcut and start posting here.

I think I will post the next one here. It is one I am keeping for myself due to carelessness with the bandsaw. The thing is, I pretty much know the mistakes I am making. My biggest problem is how to not make them. And I am selective about the advice I take. Most advice that is worth anything is based on what works for you. What works for Sas is different from what works for Rad is different from what works for Kurt. If I try listening to all of them I will end up with SRK pipe, not a DGE pipe.

Yes and no. You've got to learn the rules before you can start breaking them. Filter the tips that come your way, but if someone with experience offers you advice, listen.

Think of this forum like grad school. Be a sponge for information and advice and apply it to your own work. In time, your own style will emerge.

You beat me to it! And made the same point, though in a much more elegant way.

[Sasquatch]

When I bring my pipe to Rad and say "Hey, what do you think could be improved?" his answer isn't "You should turn that monstrositity into a graceful brandy 1/2 the size it currently is." Critique/influence is not about making pipes the way the critiquer would make them - the critiquer wouldn't have made that particular pipe (this is where it gets interesting). And yet certain ideas can be carried through, which are improvements on the pipe. Each individual pipe, no matter what shape or size, and more interestingly yet, no matter who carved it, can be "right" for what it is, and that is what a guy needs to shoot for. You can make an exact copy of a Dunhill and it's still not a Dunhill.

My strongest influences are Peterson and Castello, outright, tinkered in with the many conversations I've had with "real" pipe makers, all of whom had interesting and different takes on process and product. The one guy I can say I really got nothing from is Ernie Markle. The only thing dumber than him would be two of him. For all that influence, I cut my button a specific way, and no one else cuts it just like that. They're MY pipes and I get to do whatever the hell I want with 'em. But the decisions I make about them are not failures out of ignorance, but rather the result of thinking and learning, and talking with other pipe makers and with customers.

[The Smoking Yeti]

I just make better pipes than Sas and sell 'em for cheaper...

[dgerwin11]

I may not have stated That very well. I have read a lot on this forum and some others. It is just that if you''re not careful, you can suffer paralysis by analysis. They only advice I would probably ignore is from Sas. He makes big ugly pipes. I want to make small ugly pipes.

Speaking of which, I should have one to post in the gallery tonight. I had an unfortunate band saw incident that rendered the pipe unsellable, even by my low standards. But no unsmokable. Usually at this point I would just quit and smoke it as it is. But I will post it as I think overlooking the cutting mistake y'all can give me some good feedback.

[dgerwin11]

OK, I posted some pictures in the gallery.

[e Markle]

I know all the mathematical.formulae for calculating a price.

Great! Please share!

Had a look at the listing and I think it would be wise to post photos of your pipes here.

That's a good starting point, but be sure to be ready for tough feedback or lower-than-expected prices.

There is no such thing as bad or good in pipemaking.

hmmmm I'm pretty sure I can come up with examples of bad pipemaking.

Think of this forum like grad school...

"grad" or "grade"?

[dgerwin11]

Answers in order:

Materials + labor + profit = price. No formula accounts for reputation or lack there of.

Take you best shot. Meaner SOB's have tried and failed to hurt my feelings.

See some of my first efforts.

I think I''ll past on this one.

If you are feeling generous, please comment on "DGE Briar Nosewarmer" in the gallery.

[d.huber]

There is no such thing as bad or good in pipemaking.

hmmmm I'm pretty sure I can come up with examples of bad pipemaking.

Well if you just selectively quote me of course I sound like an idiot.

But yeah, I can come up with an indeterminate amount of examples of pipe making that doesn't work(it's a big number). However, I'll betcha $10 that the people who made them or bought them didn't think they were bad.

Besides, "bad" and "good" are judgments, not constructive observations. IMO, the latter is what we need in conversations about arts and crafts.

Think of this forum like grad school...

"grad" or "grade"?

Lol! Sometimes it can be like grade school, but since I opted not to attend grad school, it gives me something to tell the family.

[e Markle]

Materials + labor + profit = price. No formula accounts for reputation or lack there of.

My response was more sarcastic. We all struggle with pricing questions, and a formula would be really helpful. In your equation above, "profit" is what we find so enigmatic. Any of us can develop a pricing structure, but it's tough to find something we're really comfortable with... initially.

Take you best shot. Meaner SOB's have tried and failed to hurt my feelings.

I hope I didn't come across as insulting on this. I don't think anyone here is interested in taking "shots" at you. If you're feelings aren't easily hurt, that's very helpful.

See some of my first efforts.

I think I''ll past on this one.

If you are feeling generous, please comment on "DGE Briar Nosewarmer" in the gallery.

OK, I'll take a look.

[e Markle]

... it gives me something to tell the family.

Yeah, it's funny how many of my parents' questions circle around pipe making. Apparently, I'm really boring.

[dgerwin11]

I realize that people here do try to be helpful. What I really mean is be tough on me. I can't learn squat if people blow smoke and tell me "Good looking pipe, just tweak it a little." As I said before, I am shooting for a $60.00 pipe, but I want it to be the best $60.00 pipe I can make.

BTW, that one on eBay went to Brazil for $30.00 + shipping. A little disappointing, but I can live with it. The next one will post in the Gallery before eBay.

[d.huber]

Apparently, I'm really boring.

Well I could've told you that!

[The Smoking Yeti]

I realize that people here do try to be helpful. What I really mean is be tough on me. I can't learn squat if people blow smoke and tell me "Good looking pipe, just tweak it a little." As I said before, I am shooting for a $60.00 pipe, but I want it to be the best $60.00 pipe I can make.

BTW, that one on eBay went to Brazil for $30.00 + shipping. A little disappointing, but I can live with it. The next one will post in the Gallery before eBay.

I'd say at this stage, covering costs is awesome. $30 is enough to cover materials, as such, you're learning for free- which is great.

Consider this to be something like college. You gotta put in lotsa work and pay money in before you get the degree and actually start MAKING money. Just keep making pipes as well as you can, and selling them for whatever you can. Trust me, down the road you'll be happy you weren't charging lots for your early work.

[Tyler]

Before we go along much further, I just wanted to highlight the best part of this thread in case others missed it. I know it's common to read the first line or two of a post by Sas and move on, but if you behave typically in one of his above posts you would miss this gem.

The one guy I can say I really got nothing from is Ernie Markle. The only thing dumber than him would be two of him.

Carry on.

[dgerwin11]

Sasquatch, pipesmith as well as wordsmith. A true renaissance man.

[e Markle]

Before we go along much further, I just wanted to highlight the best part of this thread in case others missed it. I know it's common to read the first line or two of a post by Sas and move on, but if you behave typically in one of his above posts you would miss this gem.

The one guy I can say I really got nothing from is Ernie Markle. The only thing dumber than him would be two of him.

Carry on.

I'm no longer talking to Tyler.

I've avoided Todd for years anyway, so no loss there.

[e Markle]

Apparently, I'm really boring.

Well I could've told you that!

...or David...

[Sasquatch]

I'm no longer talking to Tyler.

I've avoided Todd for years anyway, so no loss there.

Someone tell Ernie that next time he wants an unopened tin of vintage tobacco, he's paying twice as much as last time.

[d.huber]

Apparently, I'm really boring.

Well I could've told you that!

...or David...

Lol! You're not allowed to start avoiding me until you finish fixing that pipe.