talk me out of it...
talk me out of it...
Someone needs to talk me out of getting a metal lathe from Cummins Industrial tools. Their metal lathes come out of the same factory as Grizzly and Harbor Freight stuff. I know they are of inferior quality but the price is right for a rookie ($399). What is it that I'd have trouble with? What exactly does the inferiority effect?
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KurtHuhn
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If you want one of those, I suggest reading up on the materials available at:
http://www.mini-lathe.com
Be absolutely sure that's what you want. The operations you can do on a lathe like that are limited due to the capacities of the lathe.
The inferiority comes into play regarding the internal components. I'm sure the castings for the main body is fine - but I wonder how well the bedway has been hardened. Ask Rad about the difficulty of finding replacement parts for a Chinese lathe. IIRC, he had a bear of a time finding a replacement switch for his Enco. I'd also be concerned the lathe developing slop after a while - in the tailstock as well as the headstock.
I'm no expert on the small lathes, but I'm hesitant to buy them all the same. Personally, I'd go for a Taig or Sherline if I wanted a small metal lathe.
http://www.mini-lathe.com
Be absolutely sure that's what you want. The operations you can do on a lathe like that are limited due to the capacities of the lathe.
The inferiority comes into play regarding the internal components. I'm sure the castings for the main body is fine - but I wonder how well the bedway has been hardened. Ask Rad about the difficulty of finding replacement parts for a Chinese lathe. IIRC, he had a bear of a time finding a replacement switch for his Enco. I'd also be concerned the lathe developing slop after a while - in the tailstock as well as the headstock.
I'm no expert on the small lathes, but I'm hesitant to buy them all the same. Personally, I'd go for a Taig or Sherline if I wanted a small metal lathe.
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LexKY_Pipe
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I bought a Taig completely set up for stem work for just a little more than the price you are listing for the Chinese lathe (I forget exactly what I paid, but it was within $100 to $150). I have been very pleased with the Taig, and it is a solid, well made lathe. I have been using it for well over a year now, and I expect to be using it for many years to come.
I learned the hard way about buying cheaper tools. I would have saved money buying good one's up front instead of buying cheaper one's to begin with, then having to replace them after they broke or did not perform. But that has been my experience, so your mileage may vary.
If you are looking to buy a mini metal lathe, I can highly recommend the Taig.
If you want something to work stems and turn blocks of briar, the Taig is probably not the answer. It is too small and underpowered for turning briar.
I learned the hard way about buying cheaper tools. I would have saved money buying good one's up front instead of buying cheaper one's to begin with, then having to replace them after they broke or did not perform. But that has been my experience, so your mileage may vary.
If you are looking to buy a mini metal lathe, I can highly recommend the Taig.
If you want something to work stems and turn blocks of briar, the Taig is probably not the answer. It is too small and underpowered for turning briar.
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NvilleDave
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marks wrote:I learned the hard way about buying cheaper tools. I would have saved money buying good one's up front instead of buying cheaper one's to begin with, then having to replace them after they broke or did not perform. But that has been my experience, so your mileage may vary.
Bingo/Ditto
Bingo/Dittomarks wrote:If you want something to work stems and turn blocks of briar, the Taig is probably not the answer. It is too small and underpowered for turning briar.
I don't care to turn briar... Just stems. So would a Taig micro do for that?NvilleDave wrote:marks wrote:I learned the hard way about buying cheaper tools. I would have saved money buying good one's up front instead of buying cheaper one's to begin with, then having to replace them after they broke or did not perform. But that has been my experience, so your mileage may vary.
Bingo/Ditto
Bingo/Dittomarks wrote:If you want something to work stems and turn blocks of briar, the Taig is probably not the answer. It is too small and underpowered for turning briar.
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NvilleDave
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LexKY_Pipe
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KurtHuhn
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Probably not. You may be able to find blocks to raise the height of the head and tail stocks and toolpost, but you may find it to be short on power and capacity even at that. Without a doubt, this it *not* the appropriate piece of equipment for that.bscofield wrote:I can drill my briar with this, right??
If you want to do that, and still use the same metal lathe for stems, a 9x20 lathe is the bare minimum. If you have good skills, you can do a whole lot with a mini/midi wood lathe as well.
Well perhaps I'll get the $99 cummins wood lathe for drilling then...KurtHuhn wrote:Probably not. You may be able to find blocks to raise the height of the head and tail stocks and toolpost, but you may find it to be short on power and capacity even at that. Without a doubt, this it *not* the appropriate piece of equipment for that.bscofield wrote:I can drill my briar with this, right??
If you want to do that, and still use the same metal lathe for stems, a 9x20 lathe is the bare minimum. If you have good skills, you can do a whole lot with a mini/midi wood lathe as well.
I got my Taig from Nick Carter. Nick is really great to deal with and I highly recommend him. I haven't been to his site in a while, but when I bought mine, he offered a 10% discount on everthing except the motor. I bought the motor from Nick, but Nick freely tells you that you can save money if you already have a motor, or you can get one cheaper somewhere else. I liked it that the motor he sells comes plug and play. I also had them do the lapping of the lathe bed (or something to that effect). It was only about $20 and all I had to do was put it together and start drilling rod.
Tyler had a spreadsheet on what he got to get started drilling and turning stems. He sent me a copy and I still have it. If you would like a copy, let me know and I will email it to you.
That way, you can take the list and get current prices. You also won't buy stuff you won't need. I use every lathe accessory I bought on every stem I make.
Good luck making your decisions.
By the way, how are you drilling briar now? If you are already using a drill press, or if you already have one, a lathe may not be necessary.
Tyler had a spreadsheet on what he got to get started drilling and turning stems. He sent me a copy and I still have it. If you would like a copy, let me know and I will email it to you.
That way, you can take the list and get current prices. You also won't buy stuff you won't need. I use every lathe accessory I bought on every stem I make.
Good luck making your decisions.
By the way, how are you drilling briar now? If you are already using a drill press, or if you already have one, a lathe may not be necessary.
Thank you, Kurt, for helping me get signed on! 
Greetings,
I've been wanting to respond to this topic for quite some time but I couldn't get registered properly. I apologize for the late reply...
I have owned a Homier 7x12 mini metal lathe since 1999. It is nearly identical to the Cummins lathe. You can still purchase the Homier for $299.99. The Cummins is $100 more but includes accessories that aren't necessary for pipe making. If you set up and maintain these inexpensive lathes properly you can get many years of great service out of them. I use my mini lathe and a Cummins mini mill to produce custom parts and replacement parts for new and discontinued microscopes. I am in the middle of constructing a microscope from scratch and the needed tolerances for this project is much finer than is needed to produce pipes. As already mentioned, http://www.mini-lathe.com/ has a tremendous amount of information on how to set up and maintain these lathes. You can get replacement parts and new tools/accessories for most mini lathes at http://www.littlemachineshop.com/. I've bought enough stuff from them that I should own stock in the company!
Somebody mentioned that drilling draft holes would be difficult with a mini metal lathe. I don't find that to be a problem at all. My mini lathe has 12" between centers. There is plenty of room to accomodate the long drill bits for draught holes. I drill bowls and draught holes a little differently than most people do on a lathe. I do not put the drill bits in the tail stock and the pipe stummels in the spindle chuck. Instead, I remove the tail stock and attach a vertical milling vise on the lathe compound (the part that moves the cutting tools up and down the bed). You can get a vertical milling vise that attaches to the compound for about $60.00. I chuck the drill bits in the spindle chuck and clamp the pipe blank in the milling vise. Doing it this way, I have close to 10" of the lathe bed to continuously push the compound/milling vice/pipe blank combination into the drill bits to drill holes. This also prevents having to spin the pipe blank off-center and out of balance in the spindle chuck. This is much more stable, prone to far less drill chatter, and produces much more accurate alignment when drilling the tobacco chamber and draught hole. I seldom have misaligned holes.
There's plenty of room to turn stummels, too. I can turn materials up to 7" in diameter. This will accomodate most all pipe designs except for, maybe, Canadians with extremely long stems. I haven't ever really found many problems turning stummels on my lathe. I also like the fact that the mini metal lathe can be set to lower turning rpms than most mini wood lathes. I can turn the rpms down as low as 40 rpms. This comes in handy when working with lucite. Lower rpms keeps the lucite from overheating and melting when turning a stem. Melted lucite is a pain to clean out of the cutting tools!
If you buy a mini metal lathe and just clean off the packing grease and start right out to use it you will be disappointed. If you expect these lathes to last years without proper maintenance you will be disappointed. When I bought my lathe in 1999 the headstock spindle only had a runout (wobble) of .0001". That's pretty darned good. After 6 years of using the lathe 10 hrs to 15 hrs per week (on average) the runout has only increased to .0003". I adjust all of the gibs on the carriage, compound, and cross slide twice a year. I keep a light coat of lithium grease or oil on exposed metal parts and protect the lathe ways (bed) from dropping tools on them and I can still maintain better than .001" tolerances in what I turn. I don't think you need to hold .001" tolerances to produce a pipe.
I guess you can tell I'm a fan of these lathes. No, these aren't a 10" Atlas or South Bend lathe but I've made thousands of dollars with my little lathe and milling machine. Just to give you a little background...in the 1970s I was a master machinist working in the aerospace industry. If I couldn't produce accurate and attractive work with my mini lathe I would have gotten rid of it years ago.
(I am not affiliated with nor am I employed by any company that produces mini lathes. )
Best regards to all,
Greetings,
I've been wanting to respond to this topic for quite some time but I couldn't get registered properly. I apologize for the late reply...
I have owned a Homier 7x12 mini metal lathe since 1999. It is nearly identical to the Cummins lathe. You can still purchase the Homier for $299.99. The Cummins is $100 more but includes accessories that aren't necessary for pipe making. If you set up and maintain these inexpensive lathes properly you can get many years of great service out of them. I use my mini lathe and a Cummins mini mill to produce custom parts and replacement parts for new and discontinued microscopes. I am in the middle of constructing a microscope from scratch and the needed tolerances for this project is much finer than is needed to produce pipes. As already mentioned, http://www.mini-lathe.com/ has a tremendous amount of information on how to set up and maintain these lathes. You can get replacement parts and new tools/accessories for most mini lathes at http://www.littlemachineshop.com/. I've bought enough stuff from them that I should own stock in the company!
Somebody mentioned that drilling draft holes would be difficult with a mini metal lathe. I don't find that to be a problem at all. My mini lathe has 12" between centers. There is plenty of room to accomodate the long drill bits for draught holes. I drill bowls and draught holes a little differently than most people do on a lathe. I do not put the drill bits in the tail stock and the pipe stummels in the spindle chuck. Instead, I remove the tail stock and attach a vertical milling vise on the lathe compound (the part that moves the cutting tools up and down the bed). You can get a vertical milling vise that attaches to the compound for about $60.00. I chuck the drill bits in the spindle chuck and clamp the pipe blank in the milling vise. Doing it this way, I have close to 10" of the lathe bed to continuously push the compound/milling vice/pipe blank combination into the drill bits to drill holes. This also prevents having to spin the pipe blank off-center and out of balance in the spindle chuck. This is much more stable, prone to far less drill chatter, and produces much more accurate alignment when drilling the tobacco chamber and draught hole. I seldom have misaligned holes.
There's plenty of room to turn stummels, too. I can turn materials up to 7" in diameter. This will accomodate most all pipe designs except for, maybe, Canadians with extremely long stems. I haven't ever really found many problems turning stummels on my lathe. I also like the fact that the mini metal lathe can be set to lower turning rpms than most mini wood lathes. I can turn the rpms down as low as 40 rpms. This comes in handy when working with lucite. Lower rpms keeps the lucite from overheating and melting when turning a stem. Melted lucite is a pain to clean out of the cutting tools!
If you buy a mini metal lathe and just clean off the packing grease and start right out to use it you will be disappointed. If you expect these lathes to last years without proper maintenance you will be disappointed. When I bought my lathe in 1999 the headstock spindle only had a runout (wobble) of .0001". That's pretty darned good. After 6 years of using the lathe 10 hrs to 15 hrs per week (on average) the runout has only increased to .0003". I adjust all of the gibs on the carriage, compound, and cross slide twice a year. I keep a light coat of lithium grease or oil on exposed metal parts and protect the lathe ways (bed) from dropping tools on them and I can still maintain better than .001" tolerances in what I turn. I don't think you need to hold .001" tolerances to produce a pipe.
I guess you can tell I'm a fan of these lathes.
No, these aren't a 10" Atlas or South Bend lathe but I've made thousands of dollars with my little lathe and milling machine. Just to give you a little background...in the 1970s I was a master machinist working in the aerospace industry. If I couldn't produce accurate and attractive work with my mini lathe I would have gotten rid of it years ago.(I am not affiliated with nor am I employed by any company that produces mini lathes.
)Best regards to all,