My First Pipe - Critiques Wanted

d6monk · Post by **d6monk** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:19 pm

Hi everyone, I just completed my first pipe (handcut acrylic for the stem)and although it is far from perfect I was hoping that some of you could leave some critiques on how I can improve.

I learned a ton on this one and I can't wait to start on my second. I'll need to order some small files or something to do the slot, and I have to make sure never to do any sanding/buffing without the stem attached to the shank if I want them totally flush. Hopefully #2 will be a big improvement.

Sorry for the blurry pictures, those will hopefully improve my second time around as well.

Also, a few questions I was hoping someone could answer. First, do you guys countersink the tenon airway? I did it on this one, but I would really like to know what everyone does. I would think it might be better to not countersink and just make sure the tenon and mortise airways are perfectly aligned.

Also, I have heard about slots that have a trumpet flared airway at the button. What shape is this exactly? I'd like to give it a shot on my next pipe.

Finally, probably most important, what is the usual cause of whistling in the stem. The pipe put together makes no whistling, and niether does the stem part if I blow through the bit. But if I blow through the tenon at a certain speed I get a slight whistling. How can I get rid of this? I tried sanding and buffing the airway and it is still there. Does it even matter?

Thanks a lot everyone I really appreciate any feedback I get!

Cariztian · Post by **Cariztian** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:12 am

Really nice looking pipe!

At least i think so, but im pretty new to this and not a "perfectionist" either..
Not yet ^^

Did you use a lathe?
What tools did u use?

Christian

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:26 am

Whistling can be caused by any number of irregularities in the smoke channel, including a slight gap or misalignment of the holes in the shank and tenon.

This is but one of the reasons we countersink the tenon end.

Rad

d6monk · Post by **d6monk** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:35 am

Thanks Christian, I dont't have any woodworking experience so I didn't have any tools whatsoever, but I managed to borrow, scrounge, and buy most of what I needed (I still need to get some small files for button area and hopefully will be getting bigger sanding discs soon, right now I'm just using some 3" ones in a drill chuck). I did manage to get a small lathe though and once I learn how to drill without everything wobbling all over the place it should be pretty good.

Thanks Rad, thats good to know about countersinking the tenon. Is countersinking the airhole in the motise also done regularly? And what about countersinking the mortise or chamfering the outside of the end of the tenon a little? I'm new so just trying to get a feel for what most people are doing.

What about whistling in a stem not attached to a pipe?!

Thanks again you guys, I really appreciate it!

flix · Post by **flix** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:39 am

d,

You might try a bright light to see into both ends of the stem. It might just have a sharp obstruction that needs to be filed down. A smoother pathway should be much quieter.

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:56 am

Camfering the mortise floor would not serve a useful purpose. I make sure my mortise floor is square/flat by using brad point bits. Precision forstner bits can also be used. I, personally, avoid regular bits.

d6monk · Post by **d6monk** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:02 am

Thanks flix, I'll make sure there are no obstructions next time.

Wdteipen, I used a 5/16 forstner bit on this one, but what I have noticed is that when forstner bits get down into small sizes like that they are no longer perfectly flat (they are a little more angled). Is there a brand or forstner that is perfectly flat at those sizes or should I try a brad point bit?

Thanks guys, this is very helpful!

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:23 am

d6monk wrote:Is there a brand or forstner that is perfectly flat at those sizes or should I try a brad point bit?

A good quality Forstner should be perfectly flat except for the centre spur. A brad point bit will not make a flat bottomed hole. Personally, I prefer an end mill bit.

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:12 am

Frank wrote:A brad point bit will not make a flat bottomed hole.

Are you sure about that Frank? Seems pretty flat to me.

As for a good precision forstner bit, I like the Freud brand.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:00 pm

A lot of brad point bits actually have a curved face - slightly concave. That said, it shouldn't be to much of a problem. I still prefer a forstner bit though.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:45 pm

wdteipen wrote:
Frank wrote:A brad point bit will not make a flat bottomed hole.
Are you sure about that Frank? Seems pretty flat to me.

My brad points are probably a cheaper brand - Harbor Freight(?). They have a slight taper from the outer edge to the brad point. Sort of like a 3-point crown when viewed in profile.

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:55 pm

Deleted post so as not to hijack this thread.

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:31 pm

Guys, a perfectly flat mortise floor with a perfectly flat tenon face butting up against it sounds great but doesn't quite work. As soon as you get a bit of moisture and tar on the mortise floor--this will inevitably happen with smoking--the tenon will be pushed up in the mortise and create a light gap at the shank/stem transition. That's why a mortise floor with a bit of an angle is advisable. My suggestion is to use a standard high quality fluted drill bit that is neither bullet or brad pointed. In order to get a very nice close fit, you can chamfer the tenon and countersink the draft hole through the tenon. This will allow for a seamless transition of the smoke as it passes from the draft hole in the shank to the draft hole in the tenon and up through the stem.

The other problem with brad point or forstner bits is that they leave a small conical divot in the floor of the mortise. This is fine if you're going to be able to drill the draft hole dead center in the bottom of the mortise, but you'll find this will limit you to fairly straight or very simple bent pipes without a great degree of variance between the angle of the mortise and the angle of the draft hole.

By the way, can someone explain the fascination with a flat-bottomed mortise? This bit of pipemaking minutia is new even for me. The only other time I've ever heard this is when a guy named Random advocated this for making pipes with the stem permanently attached to the shank. Needless to say, the idea did not take the pipe collecting world by storm.

Todd

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:02 am

ToddJohnson wrote:The other problem with brad point or forstner bits is that they leave a small conical divot in the floor of the mortise. This is fine if you're going to be able to drill the draft hole dead center in the bottom of the mortise, but you'll find this will limit you to fairly straight or very simple bent pipes without a great degree of variance between the angle of the mortise and the angle of the draft hole.

Well, not really. I mean, there's a small pinprick where the point of the Forstner bit leaves a mark, but once you drill the airway, there's not even a hint of it.

By the way, can someone explain the fascination with a flat-bottomed mortise? This bit of pipemaking minutia is new even for me. The only other time I've ever heard this is when a guy named Random advocated this for making pipes with the stem permanently attached to the shank. Needless to say, the idea did not take the pipe collecting world by storm.

I use one (Forstner bit) because it works and is consistent. Also, I find a countersunk tenon is easier to fit to a flat bottom mortis than a conical one. I originally started using one when I moved to using delrin tenons for the bulk of my stems (for mortis diameter purposes), and it works so well I never considered changing.

Does make a better smoking pipe? Dunno. What I do know is that I prefer it, so I keep doing it.

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:05 am

Todd, I can't explain the driving force of having perfectly flush mortise floor and tenon faces. However, there are those amongst us who very seldom pull a pipe apart for cleaning. There was a review (I believe by Pease) of a Roush pipe, and he said his one real complaint was that the tenon was a very tight fit indeed, and Mr Roush basically said "Yeah that one was kind of tight - but why are you taking the pipe apart?" (I will see if I can find a link to that).

So I guess the idea is to make a "seamless" airway and never have to dis-assemble a pipe.

I take my pipe apart every time I smoke it, and honestly, unless a pipe gurgles or has a really tight draw, I don't care what the hell it looks like inside. Peterson's System idea is clever as hell, and totally the opposite of what most "good" pipes entail for internals....

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:07 am

Here's the relevant part of the post, and the link from which it was stolen. Copyright to Pease etc etc.

One of the first things I'll do after looking at the purely aesthetic beauty of a pipe is remove the stem. In doing so, I discovered the tenon of this pipe to be a bit tighter than I would normally prefer. It's not squeaky tight, not tight enough to worry me about taking the stem off, but tight enough to make me think about it.

Apart from this tiny nit to pick, and I always strive to find at least one, the fit and finish are second to none. The drilling is absolute perfection. The tenon is deftly countersunk, and fits all the way to the floor of the mortise with no gap. A pipe cleaner effortlessly travels from stem to stern without the arcane machinations often required with bent pipes. The airway is open and perfectly aligned with the stem. At the bit end, the stem button is comfortable and beautiful, and the smoke exits through a perfectly tapered and smoothly recessed opening. The silver ring, that graces the shank is exquisite, truly a piece of jewelry for the pipe, adding a sophisticated charm to the rusticated finish. Outstanding!

I called Larry to ask about the tight tenon. "I noticed that, too, on that pipe. It's just a little tight. Nothing to worry about. But, why do you want to take it apart?"

He makes a good point. I took it apart, naturally, to measure the tenon length and mortise depth, and to inspect the airway. But, I certainly don't have to remove the stem to clean the shank. As I said, the fit and alignment are perfect. I haven't taken it apart since the inspection - except to show a friend of mine how perfect he fit was

http://www.glpease.com/Pipes/Reviews/Roush.php

flix · Post by **flix** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:00 am

I also rarely take apart the pipes I smoke. I've only made one pipe with the brad bit so far, to make it a flat mortise. I hadn't thought of the fit problem cropping up.

Do customers habitually take apart the pipe to clean it? If so, I would have to agree with Todd, for customer's sake. That said, it seems that it should be less trouble to make the mortise/tenon junction flat, for my sake.

This seems like the trend (from seeing so many of the new high-grade pipes made flat) to "progress" to the flat method in preference over the tapered.

Is this an "in-house" debate?

d6monk · Post by **d6monk** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:12 am

This is great info, thanks to everyone.

I never thought about the problems with residue buildup in the mortise either, that's a great point to bring up Todd.

How much to you guys usually countersink the draft hole through the tenon? I was doing about 1mm with a 82deg countersink. I was also chamfering the outside of the tenon about 1mm as well. It seems sufficient, but I don't really know much at this point in my pipe making career.

This whole flat bottom mortise debate has really got me thinking now.

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:32 am

The idea behind a flat mortise floor with no gap left between tenon and mortise is that there is no space for moisture to collect and cause gurgling. If you pull apart one of my pipes after many, many smokes you will see a clean mortise with no gunk build up. The same cannot be said for a pipe with a mortise floor that is not flat or a mortise and tenon fit that has a gap. I've heard it said that such a fit will eventual result in a gap between stem and shank due to moisture causing the mortise to expand but I'm just not seeing evidence of this phenomena. Then again, I am very new to the craft.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:57 am

wdteipen wrote:The idea behind a flat mortise floor with no gap left between tenon and mortise is that there is no space for moisture to collect and cause gurgling. If you pull apart one of my pipes after many, many smokes you will see a clean mortise with no gunk build up. The same cannot be said for a pipe with a mortise floor that is not flat or a mortise and tenon fit that has a gap. I've heard it said that such a fit will eventual result in a gap between stem and shank due to moisture causing the mortise to expand but I'm just not seeing evidence of this phenomena. Then again, I am very new to the craft.

Even Roush, whose pipes sell in the $1000 range, leaves a few thou gap. The theory being that after years of smoking, a very small layer of gunk will deposit. If there's no gap, this gunk will slowly push the stem out, creating a tiny, but visible gap twixt shank and stem.

Advocating never removing the stem from straight through draft hole pipes (as opposed to Petersen type systems) is all good and well as long as the pipe is in perfect order. What if, after 10 or 20 years, you happen to chew through the stem of your $1000+ pipe and need that stem replaced? Over the years that gunk eventually works its way into the wood and wicks up the sides of the mortise/tenon, virtually welding the two together. I have encountered such estate pipes many times and have had to drill into the mortise to remove the old tenon in order to replace a damaged stem. There's probably a better way to do it, but I've yet to figure it out.