Selling Pipes

[Cory]

I know I am new and still have a long way to go, but I am interested in selling some pipes pretty soon.

I have limited tooling (aka no lathe - I am working with drill press, combo disc/belt sander, scroll saw, table saw, rotary tool, grinder/buffer [currently has wheels for tripoli and white diamond on it], hand files, hand sandpaper) and limited skills (working on shaping pipe 3 and finishing pipes 1 and 2), but I have dedication, determination, and many years experience in metal/wood work.

I ran into the owner of the local tobacco shop and was introduced to him as a pipe maker (hah!) and he seemed interested. My plan is to get together 7 or so different pipes that are salable and taking them to him to possibly work some sort of deal. Which leads to my first formal question - better to sell through a local shop or online? or both?

Question nombre dos: what should I be asking for my pipes online/through a shop? I was hoping to start in the $100/ea range for my first 'good' pipes (I had someone lowball me at $50 for my first pipe - the unfinished pocket billiard, so I have hope). Am I expecting to much or should I just let the market rule my prices?

Question three: should I be expecting to make pipes as orders come in, or should I have a 'stock' - for example always having 1 or 2 billiards (and other popular shapes) on hand.

Question four: I have a huge list of pipes I want to make that aren't classic in the least (and an equally huge classic list). Is there a market for these types of pipes? I ask this, because I never see anything like the pipes I have in mind. I don't want to make 'novelties', but I want to make quality pipes out of quality materials that allow me to express some new ideas (nothing crazy, just less classic)

Question five: Am I nuts for trying this?

Looking forward to hearing from y'all. I highly respect the opinions of this board and want an honest review, so feel free to be brutal.

[Ocelot55]

I'm learning all this junk myself. I've sold pipes for as little as $20 and as much as $150. I've also sold online, but most of my sales are from my local B&M. Go figure. Sorry I'm not much help.

I do think I can answer question five, though: Yes, your completely nuts!

[archaggelosmichail]

It doesn't matter how many tools you have, if you're spending money on them ot how many hours you spend on a pipe.

For me only the final design,frilling,finishing of your pipe can low or raise it's price.

You can work 18 hours and come up with a baf looking pipe, or 7 hours and came up with a graet looking.

So my advise is, take a very good look on other pipemakers prices, especially to those that sell their pipes at the prices that you want to sell yours.Try to touch their pipes, see their drilling, if they handcut their stems ect.

Rate your job and find out a price that reflects this rating.

[AaronC]

I'll offer a few opinions on the subject. I don't speak from experience.

#1 Both, no reason to limit yourself to one or the other. Remember that selling through a local shop is going to reduce your potential profit, the merchant needs to be able to make a profit too. I too have had a couple local merchants ask if i would be willing to sell them some. What I've been thinking is that if I happen to make a pipe that I think is of higher quality I will try to sell it myself, weather through the internet or personal contacts. If I think it's a quality working pipe but maybe nothing special I will sell it to a shop to at least help recoup the cost of materials so I can try again.

#2 This is a difficult one with no solid answers. I would say mostly all any of us can do is let the markets decide. As far as the local outlet is concerned I would offer a few considerations. Does this store already sell other pipes? Are they just basket pipes, or do they offer quality artisan pipes as well? Where will your product fall in line?

#3 Just make pipes as your time allows. If you end up with a surplus of pipes that's awesome, its just that much more experience you'll have under your hat.

#4 Make whatever makes you happy. There is probably a market for any of them, how big that market may be is the question.

#5 No you are not nuts. There's nothing wrong with making goals or having dreams. Who knows what the outcome will be. I feel it's more about the journey that the destination.

Just be honest with yourself and you'll work your way through it. Especially with all the great help available to us from this forum.

Best of luck!

Aaron

[KurtHuhn]

better to sell through a local shop or online? or both?

You can do both. They're not exclusive to each other.

Question nombre dos: what should I be asking for my pipes online/through a shop? I was hoping to start in the $100/ea range for my first 'good' pipes (I had someone lowball me at $50 for my first pipe - the unfinished pocket billiard, so I have hope). Am I expecting to much or should I just let the market rule my prices?

The market will drive the price. $50 for your first pipe is actually a fair price if it is drilled correctly and smokes well. This, however, is heavily dependent upon the attention to detail you exhibit and your execution of the pipe itself.

Question three: should I be expecting to make pipes as orders come in, or should I have a 'stock' - for example always having 1 or 2 billiards (and other popular shapes) on hand.

You should do whatever feels right given your supply chain and unique circumstances. I almost never have stock on hand save for a few on my website. Most of my work is custom orders, leaving little time to have a stock of catalog shapes. If a retailer calls and wants some pipes, we discuss what he needs, the price point he wants to hit, and hash out the details before I the first pipe is ever made. That has always worked for me, but other may have different experiences.

Question four: I have a huge list of pipes I want to make that aren't classic in the least (and an equally huge classic list). Is there a market for these types of pipes? I ask this, because I never see anything like the pipes I have in mind. I don't want to make 'novelties', but I want to make quality pipes out of quality materials that allow me to express some new ideas (nothing crazy, just less classic)

The bottom line is that you have to make pipes that are going to sell. Cater to your intended audience. Make what the public wants to buy. There is a market for novel shapes, just there is for catalog shapes. Understanding your potential customers is key to being able to sell anything.

Question five: Am I nuts for trying this?

Naw. People set out on new ventures all the time. You're only nuts if you expect instant success. Which leads us to....

The brutal honesty you asked for:
Based on what you've posted in the gallery, I strongly suggest holding off on either putting up a website or setting up a retail arrangement with local (or remote) stores. Frankly, your work needs work. It's understandable that you want to start selling pipes, but you will be setting yourself up for a hard fall if your gallery posts are indicative of what you will be offering for sale. Your work shows some understanding of how pipes should look, but things like stem/shank fitment, finishing, overall harmony of the shape, and airway/tobacco chamber intersection all need refinement.

Your potential customers all are going to have very well formulated ideas in their minds of how a pipe will fit together, look, and operate. You need to at least match a $50 factory pipe (like a Peterson or Savinelli) if you want to sell $50 pipes. If you want to sell $100 pipes, you need to match the quality of pipes in that range. That's the hard truth.

Keep making pipes, get tooled up with things that will help you get the same (or better) results faster, and practice. Post your efforts here, and keep looking for advice - if you're serious about selling, ask for honesty so that the folks that can provide the caliber of feedback that will you get to that point.

The problem with the gallery is that the grand majority of people that post there have no intention of going pro, and giving them the same honest feedback I just typed isn't fair to their intent to just have a hobby and engage in peaceful tinkering time. If you want to sell you pipes however, you need to understand that the feedback you get is probably going to sting for a while until you improve - so be prepared for it.

[KurtHuhn]

I feel I should qualify the above by adding that I am no way saying you should not sell your first pipes. That's not at all what I mean. However, I suggest keeping those sales local and in-person, as well as with friends and family for the time being.

[Cory]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

Kurt - I like to think I am pretty good at taking criticism (sometimes it is hard to admit I am wrong, but I know you guys are the professionals and I am the newbie. I am sure once I get some experience under my belt I will look back and laugh at my first pipes). That being said, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be 110% brutally honest when critiquing anything I post. Anything I can do to improve a product that I eventually want to offer up for sale is something I want to hear. I like to take pride in the work I do, and don't plan on selling (other than to friends/family as you mentioned - the $50 offer was from a friend) until I can stamp my name on the pipe and be 100% proud of it.

Thanks again guys - this all helps extraordinarily.

[Sasquatch]

I'll be more brutal yet.

The answers to all these questions are irrelevant, because you aren't tooled up correctly and can't make any money at pipes because of it. This is just the truth. So worrying about particular figures or a sales strategy at this point is about as sensible as worrying about whether you should order 2,000 blocks from Greece or Italy. Irrelevant for now.

Make pipes.

Sell 'em.

Make more.

But don't for one minute think of this as a business venture because it isn't yet. I speak as the KING of weekend-warrior hobbyist wanna-bes. I make pipes on putrid equipment that is just barely good enough in all ways. I've gotten very good at doing things the wrong way. Pipes take me a little longer than some guys because of some of these limitations. But the fact is I have the bare necessities - lathe, drill press, buffing setup and sandblasting abilities. After a couple years fooling around, a buddy put a website up for me.... it's cool, I sell a few pipes though it. But none of this is a "margin" thing, none of this is a "is this the best way to get famous at pipes" thing (and I'm not accusing you of anything here, just sayin'). It's all just goddam fun.

All you can do is get better and better. Once you make good enough pipes, selling them is easy. Forget everything else and just get good at making pipes. Sell 'em to hobos, sell 'em through a shop, make each one the best you can. Then all things will become clear.

[SchmidtN]

And Sas' limitations don't stop there... he also can just barely photograph his pipes!

I keed, I keed...

[Sasquatch]

No Dark Twist for you!

[KurtHuhn]

Damn Sas, that reads like I could have written it about me....

[SchmidtN]

Ah, come on Toddy Man, you know I kid around out of pure respect for your woody skills. AND... we all know I'm a sweet tooth smoker who'll only touch aromatics that have a tablespoon a sugar sprinkled on top!

[Kenny]

I've never sold a pipe, and I may not ever do so. But I've had my lathe work in 6 galleries, sold online, ebay, tried many different things and learned a lot in the process.

My first time bringing my stuff to a gallery was crushing. It was the first time I saw a real pro's work, and I was humbled to say the least.

I've come a long, long way since then, but my pieces still don't compare to the like of David Ellsworth, or any of the other real pros.

Rad Davis has said some things to me I don't like, but he did so for a reason. I needed a reality check. In all honesty, I think you do too.

Now I don't say this to be a jerk, but when you see the work from some of these guys who have 10, 15 or 20 years experience making pipes, you'll understand.

Slow down, learn to crawl before you try to run.

[wmolaw]

"That is unbelievable!" At least ten folks told me that when I showed them the first pipe I had crafted from a pre-drilled kit. "You should set up a business! You could make money doing that."

What a bizarre joke. It was a piece of junk, though it smoked fine. I had a great time crafting it, and was pleased with the kudos, but then I actually got into learning what a real pipe, a pipe that someone would pay actual money for, looked like, how it was engineered, the quality, the fit. I had smoked pipes for years, but really had no conception of what was needed to craft a pipe which would draw a purchaser's eye, and make him open his wallet.

And as Kenny said, I was immediately humbled and knew that I was less than a "weekend hobbyist."

But, know what, that's okay. I just enjoy making pipes, trying to do stuff that I haven't done before and learning to use tools/machinery with which I'm not familiar.

And I'm making pipes, trying to work on learning grain, how to shape, using all kinds of wood to do so (briar is EXPENSIVE), and having a blast.

What the hell, keeps me from arguing with my wife on the weekend. Gives me something to do after golf on Saturday and Sunday, and even gets me to go home during the week, from time to time, without the obligatory stop at the watering hole.

All good.

I have noticed, as I have scrolled back through the years in the gallery, that many who were posting then were (in their own eyes) "up and comers," who had new websites, etc., etc., now no longer post, and their websites are dead. And know what, their pipes were nice, to my eye at least.

Some, however, haven't, some have had great success and will continue to have success. I sure hope you are one of those who succeed.

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble. Take the above with a grain, then a bag of salt.

[SchmidtN]

I don't often post anything of any kind of use around here... but I'll add something here to what wmolaw was getting at. This is actually a quote from Sas...

"Pipe smokers are non to picky."

And boy, is that true. I've spent my pipe making career trying not to sell pipes because I live in fear of turning my hobby into work. I've sold a grand total of two (2) pipes. One was to a fellow on YouTube who saw me smoking one I'd made and asked if I'd make him one. The other pipe was a complete fluke. I was at a local B&M tobacco shop, bought some local blends and was BSing with the owner while I smoked a bowl. An old timer walked in to buy some pipe tobacco and started chatting with me while we all watched golf. He asked what pipe I was smoking... told him I made it... he said he really liked it and offered me $100 for it. Literally bought it out of my mouth, and that pipe, trust me, was nothing special. I think between those two pipes I made about 8 cents an hour.

Luckily we aren't pipe smokers here... we're pipe makers and we all hold each other to higher standards. Point is, people buy what's valuable to them but don't be insulted if they don't see $500 in your pipes.

[wmolaw]

I don't often post anything of any kind of use around here... but I'll add something here to what wmolaw was getting at. This is actually a quote from Sas...

"Pipe smokers are non to picky."

And boy, is that true. I've spent my pipe making career trying not to sell pipes because I live in fear of turning my hobby into work. I've sold a grand total of two (2) pipes. One was to a fellow on YouTube who saw me smoking one I'd made and asked if I'd make him one. The other pipe was a complete fluke. I was at a local B&M tobacco shop, bought some local blends and was BSing with the owner while I smoked a bowl. An old timer walked in to buy some pipe tobacco and started chatting with me while we all watched golf. He asked what pipe I was smoking... told him I made it... he said he really liked it and offered me $100 for it. Literally bought it out of my mouth, and that pipe, trust me, was nothing special. I think between those two pipes I made about 8 cents an hour.

Luckily we aren't pipe smokers here... we're pipe makers and we all hold each other to higher standards. Point is, people buy what's valuable to them but don't be insulted if they don't see $500 in your pipes.

"I think between those two pipes I made about 8 cents an hour."

LOL, got that right!

[Charl]

8 cents an hour? `I think you need to quit your day job!

[SchmidtN]

What is this... job... you speak of?

I'm a student living off government cheddar. Thank you G I Bill!