How much is grain "worth"

[Ocelot55]

So I've got a question that's been bothering me lately. Trouble is, it has no definitive answer, but I wanted to get some opinions.

Let's say you have two pipes from the same maker. Same shape; same craftsmanship; same stem material; virtually identical in every way except one has perfect straight grain and the other has some ho-hum cross grain. Probably should have been blasted or rusticated, but no pits.

What would the price difference be between the two? How would you price them? If the lesser pipe was to retail for $200, would the straight grain be worth $500? Why? What about an excellent grained cross grain like Castello's Occhio de Pernice?

[the rev]

It is weird to me why straight grain is the holy grail, I actually like birds eye way more, this is my favorite pipe ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVZUGZxR ... 7B6D8FB024

rev

[Sasquatch]

The deal with straight grain is that the pipe maker matched the shape of the pipe to the grain of the block, made a beautiful pipe "more beautifuller". Cross-grain is just that. Cross grain. I have a dozen absolutely rocking cross-cut ebauchons on my shelves. And that's just it - they're on the shelf. If someone wants a cross-cut for bird, I can do it. But there's no magic, no effort in that.

It's much harder to make a straight-grain pipe proper, with straight grain and birdseye and nothing else, than you might guess. Getting "nice" grain is easy. Getting perfect straight grain is tough, and getting a block that doesn't have pits and flaws and crap mixed in on top of that makes these pipes a rarity.

Go look at S. Bang pipes and then come back and say "hey, that's easy". It ain't.

I can make this pipe any day of the week:

Even this is pretty easy:



This is one in 100:

[Sasquatch]

Oh, and what's it "worth"? Depends. Fred Hanna won't buy a pipe that isn't dazzling straight grain. I've had other guys say "Hey, that's a cool pipe, can you make one just like it but rusticated?"

[Leus]

How would you qualify this pipe? Straight or cross grain?


DSC_0021 by Eltang, on Flickr


DSC_0014 by Eltang, on Flickr

[the rev]

Yeah I had a question if the grain follows the contour of the bowl is it a straight grain? or does it have to be vertical? In which case would only fairly billiard, poker type shapes really be "straight grain"

rev

[Sasquatch]

Straight grain in general follows the contour of the bowl - being actually "straight" is irrelevant.

I'd call the Eltang you posted a big fat cock with a lot of birdseye.

[Alden]

Straight grain in general follows the contour of the bowl - being actually "straight" is irrelevant.

I'd call the Eltang you posted a big fat cock with a lot of birdseye.

Oh no he din'nt.
Oh yes he did!

[The Smoking Yeti]

Straight grain in general follows the contour of the bowl - being actually "straight" is irrelevant.

I'd call the Eltang you posted a big fat cock with a lot of birdseye.

A.k.a.

Art.

Cheers!

Yeti

[ToddJohnson]

From experience, I can tell you that grain is worth a lot. This is a debate that comes up every couple of years, but in the end, it's a moot point. It's true, some guys don't care, but by and large, excellent grain on a pipe is always going to make it more expensive. Patterns, objects, and materials that occur infrequently in nature are always highly prized. As for putting some sort of "formula" to it, I'm not sure that's possible. I think for some brands, the blasts are a comparative "value," and the smooths are a "rip off" (Dunhill for example). The converse is true for other brands. Still other brands find the sweet spot where the blasts are a good value, and with the smooths, you get something real for the "premium" you're paying. Cavicchi comes immediately to mind.

As for "straight" versus "cross" grain, I have absolutely no preference. The key factors are density, regularity, and definition. If you look at most Bo's, you'll find they were actually cross grains. Likewise, I think Tom Eltang--especially with his Golden Contrast finish--is a bird's eye master. There are guys who are looking for one or the other, but I do not think, generally speaking, that the direction of the grain with respect to the shape affects price to any great degree.

TJ

[Gershom]

Straight grain in general follows the contour of the bowl - being actually "straight" is irrelevant.

I'd call the Eltang you posted a big fat cock with a lot of birdseye.

Wow, so I guess Sas really liked it.

[Ocelot55]

Thanks TJ. That's the kind of discussion I was looking for.

So If we use Cavicchi as an example, his rusticated pipes run about $175 to $200, and his CCCC pipes run $400 to $500. Assuming that the engineering of the pipes are of equal quality grain adds a lot of value.

[Sasquatch]

Put it another way - ANY stummel can be rusticated, a lot of stummels will blast not bad, some exceptionally, and a few stummels will come out with perfect grain just the way you hoped AND no flaws. So people pay for that. Add the art side into it as in the case of the Eltang pipe, and people pay a lot for that too.