Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

[The Smoking Yeti]

And I will still be trying to connect to wifi in an attempt to join the Google hangouts thing with all of y'all again.

TJ

Start working on it an hour early, we'll see you right on time that way!

[blenheim45]

TJ,

If it makes you feel better, anyone who read on through to the end would no there was more than just a rant, and what motivated the rant. I mentioned to some folks to jump to the end of the stream, at that time page 6 and 7, and they would get a better idea of what was going on, and why.

whether they did or not, I don't know. This was over at reddit /r/Pipetobacco, and of course mine is not the only voice, as there are some guys who style themselves as "pipemakers" and possibly would take the "turd pipes" label kind of personally. Some fall outside the group you are targeting.. some should be wearing a bullseye and carrying a roll of toilet paper. LOL

You can't go back and undo it, there are no "mulligans" on that sort of thing. What you can do is come up with the projects you were talking about. As I mentioned before I think there is a need for a good piece that lays out the differences between the qualities of various pipes and the prices that go with them. And I think it should be aimed at the broad audience, so that they can tell how to shop basket pipes as well as high grades for best bang for their bucks.

I think it will need two formats, one as an e-book for those who feel comfortable learning by reading, and another as videos, for those who find reading anything longer that what fits in twitter box intimidating.

It always amazes me how many people do not understand the most basic physics of pipe construction, which I boil down to Boyle's Law of gases. If the channel the smoke moves through varies in size, or has any obstruction to cause turbulence it is going to cause condensation of some of the oils in the smoke. Ergo, if a pipe has a chamber for a filter or a "stinger" and you remove it, you increase the condensates that are formed. If it is poorly or irregularly drilled you have the same problem. If there is a gap between the end of the stem and the shoulder of the shank fitting, yet again. and the smoker is sitting there in essence sucking on a "straw" where that crap is accumulating.

For most people they see the litmus test as being "will it pass a pipe cleaner", which basically only tells you if the channel is aligned and has no blatant obstruction, and nothing else.

Don't beat your self up over this, they will not be remembering this in a few months, and by then perhaps they will actually understand why the details are important, and why they shoould emand the quality to go with the price.

Al

[Sasquatch]

TJ,



It always amazes me how many people do not understand the most basic physics of pipe construction, which I boil down to Boyle's Law of gases. If the channel the smoke moves through varies in size, or has any obstruction to cause turbulence it is going to cause condensation of some of the oils in the smoke. Ergo, if a pipe has a chamber for a filter or a "stinger" and you remove it, you increase the condensates that are formed. If it is poorly or irregularly drilled you have the same problem. If there is a gap between the end of the stem and the shoulder of the shank fitting, yet again. and the smoker is sitting there in essence sucking on a "straw" where that crap is accumulating.

For most people they see the litmus test as being "will it pass a pipe cleaner", which basically only tells you if the channel is aligned and has no blatant obstruction, and nothing else.

HEY! Al, I'm pretty sure there's a "why's this smoke so good" pipe-de-mystifying forum somewhere that you can go and share secrets on. We're trying to talk politics here.

[Tyler]

I agree, and I almost responded to this a couple days ago. Let me try it now. Were we as pipemakers to make some sort of personal pledge that included some basic, non-controversial commitments to quality and integrity, yes that would create an "us." I get your point, but follow me here. Let's say, for example, the "us" agreed "never to sell a pipe they know is too thin at the heel." Is it a bad thing for anyone who won't make that commitment in practice to remain on the "outside," until, in practice, they will? That's a genuine question, not a rhetorical one. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it. Personally, I think the answer is no, it's not a bad thing, because it upholds the integrity of the craft and protects the consumer, whether s/he's a complete novice, a seasoned collector, or some guy's wife that wants to buy him a "nice" pipe for Father's Day.

In theory, I completely agree. Committing to integrity as a pipe maker would be a great thing, and the very process of reading and committing to the tenets would have the equally important effect of educating makers as to what one needs to have integrity about. However, I fear it wouldn't matter -- at least the commitment part. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I'm not sure it would ultimately affect behavior much. If you don't have integrity in the first place, I don't know that you would after the commitment. And if it did work to create a confidence with the consumers, you'd have people saying whatever you asked them to to ride the newly created marketing wave. When that happens, and the confidence wavers due to an influx of compromisers, what would happen? Would you kick people out? On what basis? Now you have "us and them" in an accidental and very painful way.

Personal aside and confession: my own history of having fairly recently been the pastor of a church, the king of "us", and then scapegoated to be an example of the shameful "them" probably unduly influences my distaste for anything similar in arrangement.

That still leaves us with the education part, and I do think there is value in that. (I hope my agreement is self-evident by the existence of this forum.) Other ways that gets transmitted is limited only by our imaginations: pipedia, a specific educational sticky in this forum, free Pipemaker cards passed out at Chicago, videos, e-books, sky writing, etc.. Maybe a guild helps with that, but I'm still not sure. I still fear "us and them" because of how any group provides a label around which to be loyal or antagonistic.

Having said all that I will soak on the notion. Maybe there are some pieces to the puzzle I just don't see.

Let me just say in response to this that, I'm aware what the tree looks like, and however misguided my attempts at pruning it have been over the years, I care a great deal about the fruit that comes from it--probably too much--and I carry an incredible sense of personal responsibility/guilt when I see rotten or unripe apples carried to market from that tree, and even more when people stop eating apples as a result.

I know you know, and I want to make clear in case it wasn't: I was trying to both honor you (by letting other people know) and be funny. That's a pretty stupid combination to try to pull off because it leaves the reader wondering if either was meant seriously.

As for the guilt and pruning thing, if I may offer a pastoral piece of advice: let that shit go. It's not your job. Doing good for others does not then obligate you to somehow control what they do with it. You can't and it wouldn't be right to do if you could. It also paralyses you from continuing to do good out of fear of what someone else might do, and that's a shame.

[Sasquatch]

Beautifully written and dead on, Tyler.

TJ, I woulda carved with our without ya. I'm a little less turdy because of you, however. Thank you. And Rad and Bruce, and Tyler, and Mark Tinsky, and even the guys (maybe especially) I grew up with - Wayne, two Nathans... whoever else I haven't mentioned who ever bothered to help or advise me.

That basic drive to be good, that drive to make something genuinely of value, the integrity to do it time and again and ditch the rejects even at a personal cost... that will always bring success in some manner.

Might not bring instant fame, but that's not for me to comment on much. I'll just keep cutting wood.

[blenheim45]

HEY! Al, I'm pretty sure there's a "why's this smoke so good" pipe-de-mystifying forum somewhere that you can go and share secrets on. We're trying to talk politics here.

I am pretty sure that "talking politics" in a rather sophomoric manner was what got the shit hitting the fan. But perhaps I read you guys wrong when you started talking about the "educational actions", which would hopefully lead to a larger portion of the pipe buying public knowing what they should look for in a pipe, and what is a reasonable expectation in the various levels of pipes and their respective prices.

Sure there are lots of places I can talk about what makes a good pipe, but what status do I have, beyond having smoked for a few decades? Really no status at all, and from the point of the making of fine pipes that is reasonable, since I do not have the background. And no matter what I say, the hearer has no way of knowing if I am a prophet who just came down off the mountain with the truth written on stone tablets or just another Chicken Little crying "the Sky is falling!"

I can fade back into the wood work, I am here more by sufferance than having a legitimate belonging to the group. You can continue to rend your clothes and rub ashes in your hair, or you just could do what you seemed to agree was needed, prepare materials so that your future customers know how to judge the value of a pipe, and there fore will see the value in your products in comparison to those wannabes who are turning out ill conceived pipes and claiming that they are superior products, and charging like they are superior too.

Do it well, make it fun and entertaining and you will have written "the book" on the subject, and you will have pipe sellers referring customers to it when they question why this pipe costs more than that one (saves them time), guys like me on user sites citing your "gospel", and just possibly convert a few of the heathen whittlers too. If you have everyone contribute, it becomes an organizational responsibility, not just one or two of you whaling away at the pirates and scam artists out there posing as pipe artisans. And if an outside carver of respectable work should suggest an addition or slight correction, I would suggest not just trying to incorporate it, but get his name on the revised product, so the stature of the work grows, and everyone will want to be a part of this.

[One of the nice things about e-books is that revision is so-o-o-o easy compared to paper and ink. and a book that started with say four main authors and seven named additional contributors, can have 19 additional credited contributors added with just a few key strokes.]

And this can be done in such a calm and pleasant manner that you do not have to "declare war" or attack anyone, just talk up the proper relationship between quality and value.

good luck and happy smoking

Al

[LatakiaLover]

It always amazes me how many people do not understand the most basic physics of pipe construction, which I boil down to Boyle's Law of gases. If the channel the smoke moves through varies in size, or has any obstruction to cause turbulence it is going to cause condensation of some of the oils in the smoke. Ergo, if a pipe has a chamber for a filter or a "stinger" and you remove it, you increase the condensates that are formed. If it is poorly or irregularly drilled you have the same problem. If there is a gap between the end of the stem and the shoulder of the shank fitting, yet again. and the smoker is sitting there in essence sucking on a "straw" where that crap is accumulating.

Here we go again.

You have certainly memorized the mantra, but there's a lot of projected nonsense and wishful thinking baked into it.

There are plenty of pipes which are technically perfect regarding airflow that smoke badly, and plenty of casually/badly made ones that smoke well. I talked to Greg Pease at length last night about exactly that phenomenon, in fact. He picked up the phone specifically to discuss it, with the offending pipe in hand.

As for that being a freak instance, it isn't. I work on pipes for a living (doing tune-ups as well as repairs and restorations), and see it regularly. Only occasionally, but definitely regularly. And Greg has owned thousands of them and knows good performance and taste like few other people on the planet.

So. I'm actually a nice guy. Unbelievably friendly, mild-mannered, deferential, and optimistic, as well as raise rainbow-colored bunnies in my always-sunny back yard. Ask anyone here, they'll tell you it's true. However, I get really bitchy about twice a year, and most of the time it's because someone Hoovers up a bunch of folk wisdom or context-free pipe information from the Internet and then comes here from out of nowhere to show us what they "learned."

Please don't be that guy. It's not too late to make a good first impression.

[sandahlpipe]

Please don't be that guy. It's not too late to make a good first impression.

Is it too late for me though?

[blenheim45]

Lat Lover:
I must not have stated it well, for I am not posing as an expert on pipes or their construction. I am however sometimes cast in that role by the difference in age and years of experience with pipe smoking. Nor did I mean to imply that a properly drilled pipe was ergo a good smoker, that would be as simplistic as claiming all expensive pipes smoke well and all cheap pipes do not.

What I meant to say was that an improperly drilled pipe was less likely to smoke well, and further to that,when you remove a filter or a stinger from a pipe constructed to have one, you increase the space in which the smoke can expand, which is where Boyle's Law comes in, for as a gas expands it cools and that leads to an increased rate of condensation than if the space was smaller, which it is smaller with the filter or stinger in place.

To me the proof of this is easy enough. If I smoke two bowls in a non-filtered pipe and store it without cleaning in the bowl up fashion there is typically no run out. If I do the same thing with any pipe built to take a filter I will find that the condensate will have run out through the stem. With the filter in place no run out.

My advice is going to novice smokers, who are hearing "you don't need the filter/stinger throw it out" from others. and the total of the advice is if you do this, then you need to be compulsive about swabbing out the pipe after each bowl to avoid either getting a nasty surprise when you suck it into your mouth OR in the case of bent pipes, especially, but all pipes stored bowl down to some extent, having it run back down and having a wet gunky bowl.

To the best of my knowledge the whole filter/stinger development in pipes was to give a dry pipe without having to be concerned with the expense of precision in the drilling, which of course lowered the cost on factory pipes. Other noted approaches to avoiding the expansion/condensation build up problem were the Peterson System pipe's well, and of course the calabash, where the "gunk"
is moved out of the channel of the smoke stream and therefore away from the "straw" of the stem.

If I am in error please enlighten me. I may be old, but not to old to learn, assuredly.

I could just as easily stated that another bit of "advice" I constantly see offered is that any tobacco you get should be immediately placed in jars.... even tinned tobacco, which is not being cellared. I don't know about you but I think this is pure foolishness. Barring local high humidity problems tins are generally quite adequate for storing tobacco, without stopping what ever aging process has started on the tobacco. But that would not have apropos of the discussion of pipes, their construction, etc. here.

I am here as a supplicant, not as a missionary among the heathen.

[JMG]

I am here as a supplicant, not as a missionary among the heathen.

I AM a missionary among the heathen.

BBBAAAMMMM!!! THAT JUST HAPPENED! I have never been set up so well!

[fiddlestix]

I am here as a supplicant, not as a missionary among the heathen.

I AM a missionary among the heathen.

BBBAAAMMMM!!! THAT JUST HAPPENED! I have never been set up so well!

[andrew]

Blenheim45,
We welcome people to the forum with open arms. You are getting off topic in a thread where the fun factor has already gone down the crapper. It's irritating. If you wish to discuss Boyle's Law, please start another thread with that topic. Lots of us enjoy the engineering aspect of pipes.
Regards.

[Ratimus]

I say screw Boyle's law. Just remember pV=NRT and derive Boyle's law if you need it.