UnderBender refutation

[andrew]

It would look crappy. I err on the side of form, but I also let my pipes "hang" like seamonster, off the button.

[LatakiaLover]

...underbent stems are not NOT functioning.... they are totally smokeable, maybe more difficult to clench, but I've taken to 'hanging' an underbent stem by catching the button behind my teeth...

I guess that guy who carried around and smoked a 6-foot-long pipe with an attached retractable bipod at Chicago last year was on to something. As long as a pipe functions as a pipe and can be smoked---the design is sound.

[NathanA]

Obviously you can take both sides to an extreme to refute the other and I do agree that the Neptune is underbent. However, it still looks better than the overbent rhodie. If you like one more than the other, under or over, there is certainly nothing wrong with that but can you really say one way is wrong? Show me where the form hurts the function because it certainly doesn't hurt the aesthetics (if kept within certain boundaries).

BTW, George how do you find your images? Do you do a google search for "incredulous toddler expressions" or do you just save images you like and wait for the perfect opportunity to present itself?

[Sasquatch]

Most British pipes were overbent in the past.

Most Danish pipes are underbent to exaggerate and incorporate the infinities of the human hand or some goddam thing.

My pipes are just right.

[andrew]

BTW, George how do you find your images? Do you do a google search for "incredulous toddler expressions" or do you just save images you like and wait for the perfect opportunity to present itself?

I was wondering the same thing....

[caskwith]

Most British pipes were overbent in the past.

Most Danish pipes are underbent to exaggerate and incorporate the infinities of the human hand or some goddam thing.

My pipes are just right.

I still get some customers who request an overbent stem.

[LatakiaLover]

Dear NathanA (and any other whippersnappers who think Transformer robots and light-up shoes are the pinnacle of visual design) ---

This is cool-as-fuck:



This is not:



The Ashton at the beginning of this thread is the pipe visual equivalent of the Ferrari.

Underbent stems on ANY pipe are the visual equivalent of the Cube (or whatever its called)

Old Guy out.

[NathanA]

Dear NathanA (and any other whippersnappers who think Transformer robots and light-up shoes are the pinnacle of visual design) ---

This is cool-as-fuck:



This is not:



The Ashton at the beginning of this thread is the pipe visual equivalent of the Ferrari.

Underbent stems on ANY pipe are the visual equivalent of the Cube (or whatever its called)

Old Guy out.

Dear George (and any other person who feels like he needs to use profanity to seem relevant),

Did you just try to pull a "drop the mic"? That was so cute!!

I'm not arguing that the cube is ugly. I'm not sure how you feel like that proves any point. What I did say and will say again is that the original pipe you posted is overbent and not attractive, except maybe to a person who feels like Dunhill nailed it in the 20's and that everything after that has been superfluous. Concensus opinion on this thread is against you. I also said, if you'd bothered to listen, that having an opinion on aesthetics either way, over or under bent is perfectly fine but you can't say one way is wrong. I'm not saying you're like of overbent stems wrong. I am saying that I think it is ugly and I'm sure I'm not alone.

And to prove my point I am going to go search for a picture of a jackalope and a still life painting of a bowl of starfruit.

[LatakiaLover]

Dear George (and any other person who feels like he needs to use profanity to seem relevant),

Ah. It's fucking relevance I've been hunting for all these years! Yeah, that it... fucking relevance!

Wait a minute... What the fuck are you talking about?

Did you just try to pull a "drop the mic"? That was so cute!!

I repeat: What the shucks-darn are you talking about?

I'm not arguing that the cube is ugly. I'm not sure how you feel like that proves any point. What I did say and will say again is that the original pipe you posted is overbent and not attractive, except maybe to a person who feels like Dunhill nailed it in the 20's and that everything after that has been superfluous. Concensus opinion on this thread is against you. I also said, if you'd bothered to listen, that having an opinion on aesthetics either way, over or under bent is perfectly fine but you can't say one way is wrong. I'm not saying you're like of overbent stems wrong. I am saying that I think it is ugly and I'm sure I'm not alone.

And to prove my point I am going to go search for a picture of a jackalope and a still life painting of a bowl of starfruit.

I see... NOW I get it. You're one of those literal-minded, humorless whippersnappers. Probably an eighth grade schoolteacher or something. All scoldy and stern 'n shit. (If not, you should think about changing jobs. The flashbacks I'm having---Mr. Cromer was his name---are amazing. I'm not shitting, you sound exactly like him. )

[W.Pastuch]

Holy shit George, can you please post videos of you saying what you write out loud, cause just reading your post without seeing your face or hearing your tone makes you seem like a total jackass

Anyway, I think the Ashton from the OP looks absolutely beautiful with an overbent stem (while most contemporary, underbent rhodesians and authors look like shit), and many danish shapes look perfect with an underbent stem while they would look plain ugly if overbent. So I guess it just depends on the shape. On my pipes I try to err on the side of overbending for the sake of comfort.

Young guy out (just off to sleep actually, no mic dropping).

[NathanA]

This has nothing to do with my sense of humor. I actually think this is thread is hilarious in how bent out of shape you are getting. My reccomendation is to reach behind you and unbunch your panties. Lighten up, George.

Contrary to the way you are behaving in making personal attacks, I respect other members of this board and if someone with more knowledge than me would like to impart some of that knowledge I am willing and eager to listen. However, all you have done is offer an opinion and call people names. If you can tell me why underbent is wrong and overbent is right in any objective way I want to listen. But don't tell me all brunettes are ugly simply because you prefer blondes. I may only teach eighth grade but I do understand logic and that's very bad logic.

If you had started off with "In my opinion. . ." this would all make sense. Your opinion is valid but it is not gospel. Even your pipemaking old dudes don't agree with you:

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/b ... _id=115216

And your pipemaker hero who you go all fanboy over seems to disagree with you:

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/a ... t_id=87801

And now I will strengthen my position by finishing with a picture of Barney the dinosaur and a plate of blueberry pancakes.

[LatakiaLover]

Dear Nathan (can I call you Nathan?)

The entire thread was subbed as a jumping off point for humor-filled disagreement, towel-snapping, and trashtalk bullshit. The board's been dead lately, and stuff like that seems to kickstart it.

Then came your weirdly PC-infused passive-aggressive, exaggerated-assertion defensiveness, and off we went. Remember RDPowell? Same exact dynamic (you're just a bit smoother with it.)

So. Please chalk this thread up as a failure and call it a day.

[NathanA]

Whatever, dude. Just trying to have a conversation. I am certainly not offended by anything you've said but I like to hear reasoning behind statements rather than just say, "Oh, George said it? Well it must be true." School me you curmedgeonly old man. Don't back off now. This is just getting interesting. There's no hard feelings here. This seems like exactly the type of conversation you wanted to liven things up. Show me how I'm wrong. I gave you real life examples. Tell me why Bruce's and Adam's pipes are so wrong. And even you have to admit my closing statements about random pictures were funny. Its strange that you take the role of the guy who can give a hard time to people but as soon as its flipped you're all offended.

To prove my point I will search for a picture of JFK making a silly face and a two-headed snake.

[Tyler]

[andrew]

I thought the vegan shellac thread was the best thing this summer. I was wrong.

[kamkiel]

Mine always bends a little to the left

[sandahlpipe]

The lines on the ferrari are underbent compared to the lines of the cube. I think you've got your eyes on backwards, George.

[PremalChheda]

Holy shit George, can you please post videos of you saying what you write out loud, cause just reading your post without seeing your face or hearing your tone makes you seem like a total jackass

Anyway, I think the Ashton from the OP looks absolutely beautiful with an overbent stem (while most contemporary, underbent rhodesians and authors look like shit), and many danish shapes look perfect with an underbent stem while they would look plain ugly if overbent. So I guess it just depends on the shape. On my pipes I try to err on the side of overbending for the sake of comfort.

Young guy out (just off to sleep actually, no mic dropping).

We see George every Tuesday and Friday nights on the Hangouts. It only gets ugly (and interesting) when the sledgehammer comes out and appliances are around.

IAWW, The Ashton is just slightly overbent I think, and it looks good for what it is. The Neptune is severly underbent, looks wrong, and if one were to clench it, the tobacco chamber would be pointing back too much. It is a functional and design issue in my opinion. Or it could be that it was accidently underbent.

My earlier post about some seeing a severly underbent Danish pipe was referring to some accidents or maybe a tobacco chamber that is drilled at an angle in severly. The latter works due to the functionality. However, many are doing the severe underbend without the chamber being angled in severly as well. It then becomes a functional and design issue.

I guess if you are borderline blind, then the severe underbend may be an advantage for lighting...

[PremalChheda]

This has nothing to do with my sense of humor. I actually think this is thread is hilarious in how bent out of shape you are getting. My reccomendation is to reach behind you and unbunch your panties. Lighten up, George.

Contrary to the way you are behaving in making personal attacks, I respect other members of this board and if someone with more knowledge than me would like to impart some of that knowledge I am willing and eager to listen. However, all you have done is offer an opinion and call people names. If you can tell me why underbent is wrong and overbent is right in any objective way I want to listen. But don't tell me all brunettes are ugly simply because you prefer blondes. I may only teach eighth grade but I do understand logic and that's very bad logic.

If you had started off with "In my opinion. . ." this would all make sense. Your opinion is valid but it is not gospel. Even your pipemaking old dudes don't agree with you:

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/b ... _id=115216

And your pipemaker hero who you go all fanboy over seems to disagree with you:

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/a ... t_id=87801

And now I will strengthen my position by finishing with a picture of Barney the dinosaur and a plate of blueberry pancakes.

The function of both of these pipes could be ok if the chambers are drill at a severe angle towards the back which could make the design ok, but if they are not, the function and design have issues. Of course this is my opinion. There are too many other issues with both of these pipes in design and many things are popping out that look wrong to my eyes. Not very good examples.

[Sasquatch]

There's some very fucking silly pipes being posted here. The stem goes in the user's MOUTH not up his nose.

Taking the plane of the bowl as "zero", a slight underbend gives a pipe a refined finish and allows the eyes and brain so see the gesture of the piece as completion of a set of ideas. It also allows the pipe to hang just right about 90% of the time. Occassionally a slight re-bend or tweak is required for balance.






Compare to an overbent Ser Jac which lacks grace:




And an underbent stem that hits the mark (imho)







As usual, there's no single rule that's going to work on every pipe or maximize the visual or functional aspects of every pipe. Some rather lurid examples in both directions being posted here. If you google "bent billiard, dunhill" images, you'll see a PILE of pipes that have a disproportionately long stem and overbent almost every time, compared to the standards usually accepted around here. What makes the standard? It's a little murky. George's original post is perfectly within the realm of British pipe tradition, and a bunch of us appreciate it as such even if we might not make a pipe just like that (without, say, trying to mimic a hisorical piece).

But running off to find horrible examples of pipes well outside established norms is not going to teach anyone anything or win any kudos from an argument standpoint. We are talking about finer points of design here, not trying to find the weirdest pipe ever sold.