Help: Need a citation and some thoughts

[billiard]

Hi All,

I've cleaned and refurbed hundreds of pipes over the past few decades I have been in this hobby, so new guys just hush up please, no disrespect but your thoughts and guesses will not be touching the pipe in question

A few years back at a junk store I picked up a 1920's one dot Sasieni. Now this particular one dot Sasieni has the patent number on the stem identifying it as one of the very few that were shipped to the US at that time as opposed to a diff pat number for the European version.

I gave it a refresh at the time under the philosophy of "do no harm" so I removed nothing that was there but really just cleaned it up nicely. I have since smoked the bejeezus out of it (for a few years now).

I've got a new chuck and jaws on order (sadly still using the stock ones) as well as some nice briar blocks on order that have apparently been lost in the mail - eventually my stuff will show up though and I would like to reproduce this pipe, refurb the original, and maybe sell as a boxed set (my new one and the original)

So questions please:

Would any of you have a cite to the patent numbers so I could reference it and validate this as a US one dot? I had the link at the time I found the pipe and researched it but my Google-Fu is failing...

The stem at patent numbers is oxidized- I will not be able to buff and keep the remaining, still eligible, patent numbers. I know lots of ways to do this without buffing but they all require elbow grease amounting to buffing and I will again lose the numbers. Anyone have any thoughts on refurbing this pipe and keeping the patent numbers without having an oxidized background at that locale?

Maybe when I make the new one I should call it the retirement of the old one? Maybe I should just send it to George to refurb? Or am I off my rocker again and this pipe is not as rare as my research showed my first go around?

Thanks,
Bill

[Sawdust]

I can't help any on the refurb but here is the patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/US1513428

Jim

[W.Pastuch]

I know there is a method for removing the oxidation from ebonite without mechanical abrasion- I think foutain pen repairmen use it to restore those old ebonite pens with very fine patterns. Unfortunately I have no idea on how it works, probably it's some kind of chemical process, but it seems to keep a pretty closely guarded trade secret.
Maybe you could explain your situation and convince some pen repairman to help you with that.

[billiard]

I can't help any on the refurb but here is the patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/US1513428

Jim

Excellent, thank you much!

I know there is a method for removing the oxidation from ebonite without mechanical abrasion- I think foutain pen repairmen use it to restore those old ebonite pens with very fine patterns. Unfortunately I have no idea on how it works, probably it's some kind of chemical process, but it seems to keep a pretty closely guarded trade secret.
Maybe you could explain your situation and convince some pen repairman to help you with that.

I was unaware of this, thanks very much, Might just reach out to one of them

[LatakiaLover]

I know there is a method for removing the oxidation from ebonite without mechanical abrasion- I think foutain pen repairmen use it to restore those old ebonite pens with very fine patterns. Unfortunately I have no idea on how it works, probably it's some kind of chemical process, but it seems to keep a pretty closely guarded trade secret.

That's one of those myths people love to believe, like hills that protect towns from tornadoes, and rattlesnakes striking at bullets assuring you'll always get a head shot no matter where you aim. Just wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Oxidation is the removal of electrons from a substance, meaning it is transformed into a different material at the atomic level. Oxidized vulcanite simply isn't vulcanite any more. Wherever it's green, there's no vulcanite to "change back."

The pen guys use black shoe polish, mostly, and a few have a "secret" paint that lasts a little longer than shoe polish. That's it.

If you want to retain the reg # on an old Dunhill stem, just mask it with Scotch tape, sand around it (feathering VERY delicately so as not to leave a ridge), and then stain the remaining green island black.

I wish I had better news, but it is what it is.

[billiard]

Thanks George, that's just what I needed to know.

[W.Pastuch]

That's one of those myths people love to believe, like hills that protect towns from tornadoes, and rattlesnakes striking at bullets assuring you'll always get a head shot no matter where you aim. Just wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Oxidation is the removal of electrons from a substance, meaning it is transformed into a different material at the atomic level. Oxidized vulcanite simply isn't vulcanite any more. Wherever it's green, there's no vulcanite to "change back."

The pen guys use black shoe polish, mostly, and a few have a "secret" paint that lasts a little longer than shoe polish. That's it.

That's sad to hear
And just for the record, I'm not the kind of person who "loves to believe" stuff, if someone with experience tells me that's not the case I'm not gonna feel like my world fell apart. You sure feel very confident in telling the "only truth", huh?
But no, seriously, thanks for the info.
Though I find it hard to believe that anyone would use shoe polish, since it wouldn't last very long with the kind of handling a fountain pen gets. I hava a guy who is a very well informed pen collector and repairman here in Poland, I haven't talked to him in a while but I'll try to give him a call to see if he can contribute in any way.

[DMI]

There is an off the shelf (at least in the USA) product that will remove stem oxidation and leave any markings including the paint in them untouched.

I was first introduced to it by a collector but was sworn to secrecy.

[LatakiaLover]

There is an off the shelf (at least in the USA) product that will remove stem oxidation and leave any markings including the paint in them untouched.

I was first introduced to it by a collector but was sworn to secrecy.

Please define "remove." Common liquid laundry bleach will literally remove oxidized vulcanite by dissolving it, leaving nothing where it used to be. This results in surface "pebbling" or pitting.

If you mean "remove" in the color sense---changing green to black---that can be accomplished with paint or stain. Adding a surface layer. That's not practical for pipe stems, though.

If you mean "remove" as in "return to its former state," that's Medieval alchemy. The lead into gold thing. The physical world does not work that way.

Do you have some other kind of "remove" definition in mind? Please be specific. Use as many words as necessary. Space is not an issue and bandwidth is a fixed cost.

[Ocelot55]

...Pretty sure David was joking George.

Gotta love the lack of intonation on Internet forums.

[LatakiaLover]

...Pretty sure David was joking George.

Gotta love the lack of intonation on Internet forums.

Ah. So it's fookin' wit' the old repairman day on PF, then, is it?

Tormenting the mentally handicapped isn't very nice, you know. Or sporting.

[DMI]

No it really does remove, dissolve, render non-existent the oxidation without leaving a pitted surface.

If you work in the landfill gas field there is also an enzyme that has been made to 'eat' sulphur dioxide.

Tormenting the mentally handicapped isn't very nice, you know. Or sporting.

I torment myself daily, there's nothing like a good torment.

[DMI]

It seems that I am in possession of a highly classified and sought out secret method of stem cleaning, so do I share the secret in the name of comradeship or continue to make people struggle on with their ineffective and destructive methods?

[andrew]

...Pretty sure David was joking George.

Gotta love the lack of intonation on Internet forums.

Ah. So it's fookin' wit' the old repairman day on PF, then, is it?

Tormenting the mentally handicapped isn't very nice, you know. Or sporting.

That's just how we roll around here . Rough crowd .

I don't deal much with oxidized stems any more, but I would be curious about this stuff David is mentioning, from a scientific perspective.

[oklahoma red]

David,
Is this the magic juice of which you speak?

http://obsidianpipe.com/

Chas.

[DMI]

Nope

You can a get 32oz spray bottle for $8.00 from Walmart though.

[LatakiaLover]

Nope

You can a get 32oz spray bottle for $8.00 from Walmart though.

So, you were serious.

Sorry, I call bullshit. Vulcanite is molecularly 100% cross-linked, and cannot be "assembled" from its own residual oxides by any known chemical.

What you might be mistaking for such a process is some chemical reaction that turns the oxidation black. Which would make it the functional equivalent of a stain, and would have the same primary drawback: the affected area is soft and easily eroded/scratched off.

I'm getting a strong feeling that you've never actually USED this magic stuff, DMI, but are just repeating what someone told you. (Which is probably something someone else told him. Etc.)

[DMI]

Vulcanite is molecularly 100% cross-linked

-And yet there is enough free sulphur to oxidise.

Ok I do not understand at a chemical level how this stuff works but it does work.

I'll reveal all at 00.01 gmt (22 hours or so) in the meantime have fun guessing.

David.

PS I have two 64oz bottles in the workshop which with care will clean 2-3,000 stems.

[LatakiaLover]

Vulcanite is molecularly 100% cross-linked

-And yet there is enough free sulphur to oxidise.

This is getting seriously confusing... Vulcanite isn't oxidized sulphur, it is rubber that has been hardened using sulphur and heat as the hardening (vulcanizing) agents.

Ok I do not understand at a chemical level how this stuff works but it does work.

Hm. I do understand how the vulcanization process works, and can't imagine how the residual byproducts of hardened rubber oxidation can be transformed back into into hardened rubber, even in theory---the required molecules simply aren't available.

You obviously believe you've found something that will both supply the necessary material and assemble a cross-linked polymer that's indistinguishable from vulcanite in a single process, though, so something interesting is afoot... even if it just turns out to be a photo of a sign that says, "Just slaggin' ya, Yanks!"

But, if so, it better be an entertainingly damn good sign.

I'll reveal all at 00.01 gmt (22 hours or so) in the meantime have fun guessing.

This sort of thing ^^^^ only adds to the fishy feel, you realize. As in, if you were serious, you'd just get on with it.

[DMI]

Can't a guy have some fun