guide hole for tobacco bit?

[bscofield]

has anyone tried to use a normal drill bit as a guide hole for the tobacco chamber bit? Would there be any advantages to this? Like less slippage of the tobacco chamber bit? I wonder if it would help me in drilling after shaping even tho all I have is a drill press...?

Any ideas/opinions?

[jeff]

Ben,

I always use a pilot hole to guide my tobacco chamber bits.

I would NOT try and drill after shaping with drill press or a spade bit. Spade bits are hard as hell to drill by hand with. It will chatter like hell and you run a big chance of really hurting yourself. It's really not worth trying unless you have a lathe and the proper bits. Just keep drilling first until you are set up to try the other method. There are seriously only a handful of people who shape before drilling, so the other method works well enough.

Jeff

[hiway]

Ben

I always drill a guide hole with a Forstner bit. I use a bit 1/16" smaller than the tobacco chamber bit and drill about 3/4 of the final depth. I've found that I can get much more accurate drilling and I can use a more rounded end on the chamber bit.

I tried drilling without the pilot hole but found that it was hard to get the proper center. I use a drill press and vise for all my drilling.

Dave

[ToddJohnson]

The key is *razor* sharp bits.

One of the problems with spade bits, as I remember it, is that they're never perfectly symmetrical, which tends to produce "chatter." They also need to be cut down so short in order to avoid wobble that they're pretty impractical for certain shapes. The other thing I found difficult about them was drilling at an accute angle to the "top" of the block (think Scoup, Horn, etc. Anything where the bowl top slopes toward the shank). This always required what someone else just suggested, namely the use of a forstner bit to start the hole, such that I was drilling at a 90 degree angle again. I work all of my bits over on a diamond hone, so you're a better man than I if you could get them sharp enough to avoid the difficulties I've mentioned. I'ts a bit of a moot point now though. Anybody want some spade bits . . . ?

Todd

[ScoJo]

Ooohh! Oooohh! Me...ME!



Seriously, being a beginner like me (I haven't drilled any blocks yet - just got my first undrilled blocks last week) I can't justify the expense of the modified silver/demming bits or these spoon bits (I assume they are similar in cost?). So I'll be starting with spade bits. I just ordered the Pimo set, and I figure at first I will be learning to shape the spade bits myself to get different bowl shapes.

Regards,
Scott

[ToddJohnson]

I'm still not understanding why the spoon bits work better. They look essentially the same in the photo. Is it the thick shank that makes the difference, or is there something I'm not seeing in the photo that makes them superior?

Well, it sure sounds like you've got some killer spade bits there. I'm not sure exactly what you were talking about with the "flat spot," and the 3/64" difference between your spade bits and the ones that come from . . . wherever it is they come from already ground to a point. Anyway, I'm glad its working for you and that you've gotten the "chatter" problem fixed since Richmond.

The "spoon" bits are different in a number of ways. first, they drill a cleaner hole than any spade bit I've ever seen or used (though I was just shaping mine on a grinder and then using a diamond hone to sharpen them). They can't wobble in the hole they've created because they actually fill the hole up. Because their cross-section is approx. 51% of their diameter, they're self tracking. They work like an axle in a bearing. They're essentially just like reamers.

The quality of the hole created is a compltely negligible difference though. If you get it round and smooth, that's the point. Their real advantage comes in allowing you to drill *after* you've shaped. If you've got a square block clamped in a vise and you're drilling at a roughly 90% angle, I can say that even dull spade bits work fine. But if you're holding a pipe in your hands, guiding it onto a spinning bit . . . it can't be a spade bit. Shaping first allows you to treat the block like a three-dimensional object, taking advantage of all the possibilities it might hold. When you treat a block like a two-dimensional object, drawing a shape on the side of it, and trying to get the grain to work with you, you often end up using a block to less than its potential. If you can turn the block into *any* shape that's there, and then drill it, you're at a considerable advantage, if your criteria are the ones I listed above. If you still don't understand, please direct all further questions to Jeffery Gracik and Tyler Beard. Their pastoral nature is suited for just such discussions.

Todd

[ToddJohnson]

Anyway, I'm glad its working for you and that you've gotten the "chatter" problem fixed since Richmond.

That statement is proof that you don't know shit from shinola Todd, and I am LMAO because your arrogance makes you such a fool.

Ah yes, there's the Random we all know and love. Happy Thanksgiving buddy.

Smiles and kisses,

Todd

[jeff]

Anyway, I'm glad its working for you and that you've gotten the "chatter" problem fixed since Richmond.

That statement is proof that you don't know shit from shinola Todd, and I am LMAO because your arrogance makes you such a fool.

Ah yes, there's the Random we all know and love. Happy Thanksgiving buddy.

Smiles and kisses,

Todd

There's that pastoral nature! They must teach that up here in Yankeeland.

JG

[ToddJohnson]

That statement is proof that you don't know shit from shinola Todd, and I am LMAO because your arrogance makes you such a fool.

Ah yes, there's the Random we all know and love. Happy Thanksgiving buddy.

Smiles and kisses,

Todd

I hope you have a great Thanksgiving too, Todd. When you learn how to tell the difference between spade-bit chatter marks and the marks left by a rotary grinder used to contour a tobacco chamber, maybe your European sales will improve.

Yes, I'm certain you're right. Perhaps you can come to my shop here in East Haven and teach me how to drill my pipes using a Dremel. I hear that's all the rage in Belgium now.

Happy grinding,

Todd

P.S. Have a peachy day

[Nick]

I love the idea of shaping first and then drilling. I think I've seen a few of the spoon bits that Jeff refered to at Woodcrafters. Perhaps I'll invest in one and take the plunge...heheheh take the plunge? Okokokok Sorry I couldn't resist.

Happy Turkey day to you all.

[JHowell]

I love the idea of shaping first and then drilling. I think I've seen a few of the spoon bits that Jeff refered to at Woodcrafters. Perhaps I'll invest in one and take the plunge...heheheh take the plunge? Okokokok Sorry I couldn't resist.

Happy Turkey day to you all.

The Danish pipemaking bits are quite different from the Woodcrafters ones. Somewhere in a previous thread (maybe even this one) there are links to photos of Lars Ivarsson's bits. I dunno, I could go either way on this one. Seems I pitch just as many stummels due to flaws discovered while drilling the chamber as due to exterior flaws.

[KurtHuhn]

At the NASPC show in Columbus this past August, Todd had one or two of his tobacco chamber bits (or were they a previous design, Todd?) and let's just say that they're different. They're difficult to describe without an engineering drawing but here goes:

Imagine a very short silver and demming bit reshaped to match a tobacco chamber. Now, fill the flutes with steel so that you have a solid rod. When you're finished, take it to the virtual milling machine, and mill off just under half of it's width all the way down it's length - leave the shank whole. What you're left with is the bit that folks like Todd and other high-grade makers use.

You can perform exactly the same function with a reshaped silver and demming bit. However, you have to have some strong hands, and a good bit of practice to either style of bit to drill post-shaping.

[JHowell]

You can perform exactly the same function with a reshaped silver and demming bit. However, you have to have some strong hands, and a good bit of practice to either style of bit to drill post-shaping.

With only one cutting edge, I think you have enough mechanical advantage over the bit to hanhold the stummel. With so much surface area tracking the inside of the hole, the bit will self-correct to a certain extent if it becomes misaligned. With an SD bit, if you grab an edge the OTHER edge will grab harder, and I don't care if you're the Hulk, you're not hanging on, at least not if your lathe has any torque. To my mind, having a cutting/drilling device that is inefficient enough to enable one handhold the workpiece is the reason for the existence of the Danish style bits. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation that the method and the tool belong together. I intend to try it one of these days. Seems like a pretty steep learning curve to hit the bottom of the bowl with the airhole, though.

[KurtHuhn]

With only one cutting edge, I think you have enough mechanical advantage over the bit to hanhold the stummel. With so much surface area tracking the inside of the hole, the bit will self-correct to a certain extent if it becomes misaligned. With an SD bit, if you grab an edge the OTHER edge will grab harder, and I don't care if you're the Hulk, you're not hanging on, at least not if your lathe has any torque.

Kurt "The Hulk" Huhn, at your service...

No, seriously, it doesn't pose a problem for me. I even do it sideways - facing the side of the lathe instead standing in the axis of rotation. But, as I have been told just this morning, I am a statistical anomaly....