Danish Influence?

[bornagainbriar]

Hey gentlemen - I have what I think is a great question. In researching an upcoming highlight for my blog, I ran into yet another pipecrafter saying that he felt his pipes had a "Danish influence". While we all know the names and the work of many of the Danish experts in pipecrafting, I want to ask you all this:

In your own words, how would you define "Danish Influence"?

In other words, what features, styles, finishes, rustcations/blasts, engineering techniques etc, do you see at play in YOUR OWN work, and the work of others.

Thanks for your participation. I think this is a cool thought line...

**BTW, I may wish to use quotes for this article, if so, I WILL contact you in advance for your permission before I use them. Of that you have my work as a pipesman and a gentleman.

[KurtHuhn]

Ha! This one should prove interesting. I will give my take on it...

It's marketing.

I have used that term in the past - "Danish influence", or "Danish inspired". Honestly, I have no clue what that means, and using it was silly. I had honestly forgotten about it until you brought it up - so I went and checked my site and realized it was used in the "title" tag still. It isn't anymore.

Truth is, I haven't been primarily influenced by Danish makers. My main influences have come from a handful of carvers here in the states, with minor influence from others - both from Denmark and other places. It was disingenuous to use that marketing term because I'm not sure I could properly articulate how I was supposedly influenced by the Danes - great, canine, or otherwise.

My personal take on it is that some folks seem to be using it to help lend credibility to their work. It's sort of like "Only the finest Corinthian leather" - does anyone even know what Corinthian leather is? Or does it just sound so buttery sweet coming from behind Ricardo's lips? Most carvers that are first starting out have no history, no context, and no customer base. Using a phrase like "Danish influence" seems to be used as a tool to help them create a context for their work by using the existing well known tradition of pipe makers from Denmark, and those that actually ARE heavily influenced by them. It would be the same as a firearms instructor claiming "SEAL Team inspired methods", when in reality they've never trained with SEALs and all they're basing that on is viewing a crapload of youtube videos of SOF members in training or goofing off.

I know that there are artisans that truly ARE inspired by Danish makers, and have traveled to Denmark and visited and studied with them. However, I don't think it's fair to call your work "Danish influenced" if you haven't.

[Ironpenny]

Personally I think as long as you're drinking a Carlsberg or Tuborg while making it then you are sufficiently influenced.

On a serious note, I am very interested in some of the opinions I know will crop up here. This is a common phrase that I've noticed and it will be interesting to hear the experienced weigh in.

Good points Kurt!



Chris

[archaggelosmichail]

For me there are two main design influences for pipemakers and smokers, english and dannish.



English pipes:




Mostly straight and factory-made pipes out of ebauchons, threir grain is random, especially till 30's when "straight grain" started to mean somethning.
Brown, Red and Black colours only and of course no freehand pipes.



Dannish Pipes:





Mostly bent pipes, with great grain, variety of finishing colours and tecniques, made by independent makers and not in a factory.



Italian: English pipes with dannish influence and italian grace.
Russian: The next step of dannish pipes.
Japanesse: The next step of dannish pipes.


So dannish influenced pipes, for me are pipes that follow the Dannish filosophy and design and by that most american pipes are danish influenced(acorns,volcanos, freehand dublin etc)

[bornagainbriar]

Ha1 I have enjoyed reading these replies thus far - all of them!

It's marketing.

Of this i have little doubt that is applies to more situations than not.

I have used that term in the past - "Danish influence", or "Danish inspired". Honestly, I have no clue what that means, and using it was silly. I had honestly forgotten about it until you brought it up - so I went and checked my site and realized it was used in the "title" tag still. It isn't anymore.

Interesting. I Think I'm glad I was able to help ... I think...

My personal take on it is that some folks seem to be using it to help lend credibility to their work. It's sort of like "Only the finest Corinthian leather" - does anyone even know what Corinthian leather is? Or does it just sound so buttery sweet coming from behind Ricardo's lips?

I think this is on track too, but do not disrespect Kahn....

I know that there are artisans that truly ARE inspired by Danish makers, and have traveled to Denmark and visited and studied with them. However, I don't think it's fair to call your work "Danish influenced" if you haven't.

Agreed. Looking to hear from them.

[RadDavis]

I agree with archaggelosmichail.

Danish in this instance is an aesthetic and not a method. There's no need for a maker to travel to Denmark and study with a Danish maker to suffer under a "Danish Influence". All he has to do is look at the shapes and make pipes along those lines. Same with Italian influence. Take a look at Mike Butera's work, if you want to see an American pipe maker with an Italian influence. Bob Swanson makes pipes with a very heavy Charatan influence, which is sort of in a class by itself.

Pipe makers tend to make shapes they like, and if they like Danish looking shapes, then they will make pipes with a Danish influence.

Rad

[Ocelot55]

Well, I know as much about this as I do about molecular biology (my master's degree is in political science), so of course I feel qualified to comment. (Take it with a grain of salt, and not too seriously)

To me the English aesthetic has been influenced heavily by the practical implications of pipe smoking. The shapes are therefore relatively simple. There aren't to many sweeping curves on English pipes, and while English pipes can be and are indeed beautiful, the beauty takes a backseat to the practicality of the form.

The Danes modeled their pipes in a very organic and aesthetically pleasing way. We differentiate subtle shaping changes between an English billiard and a Danish inspired billiard by picking up on subtle themes that seem to be common to the Danish aesthetic: softness of form, graceful curves, and often inspired by some organic shape in nature. Danes also pay particular attention to the briar itself and let the natural grain and beauty of the block be their guide, something completely lacking in the English school.

The Italians seem to be a synthesis of both, but with some unique qualities of their own. In my experience many Italian pipes are larger than their Danish and English counterparts and the Italians like to play around with interesting textures and rustication techniques. (There are obviously Italian pipes that do not match this criteria. My statement is a broad generalization.)

I do agree that a lot of what you hear when you're told "Danish aesthetic" has to do with marketing. However, I do not agree that one has to travel to Denmark and study under one of the great Danish carvers to properly be labeled as exhibiting the Danish aesthetic. I believe a pipemaker can be inspired by the great Danish carvers simply by looking at and attempting to emulate their work or reinterpret a shape.

Of course all I just said was probably a load of crap. This topic is so subjective that there is no single simple answer. There might not even be an answer, but that is my interpretation on the subject.

[SimeonTurner]

I prefer glazed influence over danish, personally. Fritter influence is even better.

[Gershom]

Well said Simeon, well said.

When I think of Danish Influence, I see pipes with flowing lines, (far above my ability as of yet...) freehand design, and curves that feed into the natural grain of the briar. The result of a craftsman who is able to read and translate the briar's grain so we simple folk can appreciate it. But I am still beginning...

A doughnut, that would be nice. Thanks a lot Simeon.

[KurtHuhn]

Interestingly, nobody has mentioned the "US School".

And, to add absolutely nothing to the discussion, I agree with word for word with Rad and archaggelosmichail.

[Sasquatch]

Can we break it into 4 "schools" then? I think what's been said about English and Danish is right so far - the English being sort of sparing, functional designs, their practicality being proven over a hundred+ years. Compare that to the organic, grain sensitive work of the Danes of the sixties and beyond, and it's pretty easy to see a different "school".

The Italians do what - firstly, they are pretty dedicated to lucite stems. The shaping is almost always heavier, the pipes almost always larger than the English variant. Fat asses and curvy lines. There's a laziness, a certain "ya that'll do" to cutting pipes like this. It's far easier to copy a Castello than a Dunhill because the definition of any particular Castello shape is far more ambiguous. You never look at a Dunhill and say "Well, I guess that's a 120". It either is or obviously isn't that particular shape.

I no longer personally consider these (except the rare few) as high grade pipes. They are well-finished pipes, but generally the carving is lazy as hell.

The American school.... I'm not sure it's as readily identifiable. Who is it? Tinsky, Johnson, Butera.... all make totally different types of pipes. Is Rad Davis a fusion of all of them? Is the American school just coming along now, with a whole whack of us coming up under the Rads and the Todds? Perhaps this is a group of guys who are just as comfortable doing a Blowfish as a billiard?

Is there a separate Japanese tradition too?

I like watching all the guys that started cutting pipes within a few years of me, before or after. It's neat to see the Ernie Markles, the Nate Kings, 2 or 3 different James' and 2 or 3 Daniels as well, growing and evolving, and all the while cutting pipes that are fairly recognizeably theirs.

A year or two ago, I commented somewhere that I didn't think I'd made a pipe that was recognizeable as purely a Sasquatch pipe - that a guy could look at and say "Yeah I bet that's a BST, I think Todd B cut that". I'm still not sure that's the case, although in some ways it probably is. But even if I have my own style, which would sort of be a blend of English and Italian lines, I guess.... it still doesn't fix me as being in the "American" school I don't think.... but I'm not sure I understand what would.

[Sasquatch]

Neo-Irish Bolognese.... that's me.

[mredmond]

I think I agree with the idea that the North American (let's be sensitive to the Canadians, they're a sensitive people) school is less definable than the others mentioned. It's a synthesis of all the other schools, with an emphasis on creative shaping, I think. Much like the rest of our culture. The things that are distinct are finishing styles, i.e. sandblasting, certain types of contrast staining, etc, which I'm not sure is enough to define a "school", never mind the fact that styles shift back and forth constantly. Maybe the difficulty of definition is its defining characteristic?

[Sasquatch]

Fuck you Micah, us Neo-Irish Bolognesers don't even wanna be part of your stupid school!

[wdteipen]

To me, a Danish influenced pipe is one that is shaped with more attention to accentuating the grain of the briar while, typically, still maintaining recognizable features of a more traditional English bowl shape. The result is often more graceful, flowing, feminine lines. It's also why so many Danish shapes have a degree of bend to them. Danish inspired pipes are more open to the artisan's interpretation of a particular shape. I've recently changed from describing my more Danish looking pipes as 'Danish' to 'Freehand.' So, what I used to call a Danish Bulldog I now call a Freehand Bulldog. I just got tired of my underhanded attempts to falsely gain credibility.

As for an American style, I don't think there really is one. At best, we mimic the styles that appeal to us the most. If anything, the American style is an amalgamation of multiple styles.

[jogilli]

Folks,

I tend to agree with the above general comments, but I must point out that many of the influences have to be if your figuring this out on your own or have the ability to work with one or two of the established cutters.

Influence.. Living in Germany I get some shop time with some of the makers over here and they have been gracious of my work in the beginning... and helped me along immensely. I will also say that I've been lucky enough to visit Tyler when I'm visting my old stomping grounds.. the visits and discussion have helped.. I might even be able to swing a trip to Nashville here in about 2 months and plan of at least trying to visit Nashville-School..

anyway I spend hours looking at "pipe porn"... it helps.. study the designs, figuring out the internal angles and working on the shape... My personal preference is what I'll term the European-school, since many of the makers over here apparently seem to get time together to exchange ideas..

james

[Sasquatch]

Agreed James, and I think the amount of influence will vary between individual pipe makers too. What I mean is, if you go to 2 well established makers and ask them the same question, you'll get different answers or at least different styles of answers. How effectively any particular individual can digest the ideas within the answers will determine how much of an influence/effect that answer has.

I won't embarrass myself by doing impressions (although an impressions thread would be fun as hell). Some guys are more at home in a naturalized infinitastic dialectical paradigm than others.

[mredmond]

Infinitastic?! That's more of that Bologna influence, I suppose. : )

[KurtHuhn]

Some guys are more at home in a naturalized infinitastic dialectical paradigm than others.

Colloquial English, dammit!

[Sasquatch]

Blame Bruce, he's the guy who goes into a mystical trance if you ask him a question about shaping.