A question of Ethics

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UncleDraken
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A question of Ethics

Post by UncleDraken »

Good Moring/Afternoon/Evening Chaps (And Scottie)

I've been wondering about how much of a responsibility we have to support our local brick and mortar pipes and tobacco shop.

The question has been on my mind lately as, in the UK, we have a serious lack of these stores. My 'local' is 8 miles from where I live and the lady who runs the shop reckons she's got a monopoly for at least a 20 mile radius of her shop. She's watched all of her competition close down around her over the last 40something years she's been working there. The problem is that now I've been smoking for a while I've been looking at expanding my pipe collection (if indeed you can call a solitary pipe a 'collection'), and she just doesn't have much to offer in the way of choice or quality. Her tobaccos are limited to a few tins of Peterson, Dunhill and some jars of Kendal and Samuel Gawith (which I've had to work out since she's keeping the manufacturers to herself) and so now that I've been trying to explore different types of tobacco I've been forced to look online to actually have some diversity. But I feel a bit guilty when buying online because I know she's never going to be able to compete with that.

So the question is, rather support the local shop which is perhaps the last physical presence of a pipe community in the area or go with the times and jump ship to the interwebs and actually have some choice and lower costs to boot? What do you guys think?

It's quite a 3 pipe problem.
Brent

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein
scotties22
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by scotties22 »

My husband and I do a bit of both. We live about a mile from our closest Baccy shop. I would say we stop in a couple times a month to pick up a few cigars (to smoke immediatly) and check out what new boxes they have in. We also shop online a few times a month as we see deals come along that we can't pass up. I think you should support local small businesses when you can....but there are times when you have to look elsewhere. Buy what you can from her when you can. That's really all you can do.
Am I Calamity Jane or Annie Oakley??...depends on the day.
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Bryan Johnson
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by Bryan Johnson »

I applaud you for even considering the question. It's also the "WalMart" dilemma: Shop local or buy big box/Internet?

My rule of thumb is that if the price differential isn't too huge (I'll usually go up to 10% or 15%) and it's the item I want, I'll buy local. Of course, I live in the howling wilderness of the Great North Woods, where the black bears outnumber the registered voters (really, true, and it explains a great deal about some of our laws), so shopping "local" is a relative thing.

Anyway, I'd say that if you're looking for a pipe or brand of tobacco she doesn't carry, then I'd say that you are under no obligation to buy something that doesn't meet your needs just to support her shop. On the other hand, if she is willing and able to do special orders for you, and the price differential isn't too bad, you could always go that route. What with the invasion of the Mauls (Terry Pratchett's great term), small local shops have a tough go of it, but they can do it if they're willing to provide good service.

My two cents, anyway.

Bryan
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UncleDraken
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by UncleDraken »

Bryan Johnson wrote:..if she is willing and able to do special orders for you, and the price differential isn't too bad, you could always go that route. What with the invasion of the Mauls (Terry Pratchett's great term), small local shops have a tough go of it, but they can do it if they're willing to provide good service.
"Mauls". Classic!
I have asked her how business is going, if this particular niche is making money for her and she said it's doing well enough. I asked her if she's thought about expanding to a second shop or moving towards online and she said she's happy with what she's got. She says she'll sometimes do phone orders and send packages in the post, but that's as far as she goes. She doesn't even accept cards - it's cash only with an ATM around the corner. She seemed very put off about all the regulations regarding the sale of pipes and tobacco and didn't seem very positive about the future of the industry. I have told her I'm interested in making my own pipes and asked her if there's any local pipe makers she knows of or even a local pipe club and she said she's never heard of anything in the area.

I think the two of you make a good point. It'd be ridiculous to buy second choice product just to support the local B&M. To a large degree they're responsible for providing the products that the consumers in their industry want. I think if we found ourselves regularly buying a type of tobacco that they don't provide it would be very fair to ask them if they could get it in. If they declined, then it's their own fault for not doing what they can to support their customers and we have good conscience to source it elsewhere. That would get rid of my guilt!

I guess I just find it frustrating that this particular store isn't doing all they can to keep things going in the industry. There's so much that they can be doing to boost their income and get new people into the community and it really wouldn't be very difficult! Start accepting current forms of payment, get a website even just for the purposes of letting people know where your shop is and how to contact you, organise weekly or monthly gatherings of pipe and cigar smokers at a local pub, organise some classes on pipe making/smoking or tobacco growing/blending.

The woman must at least be in her 60's if not older and so I don't think she's particularly worried about the future of her business, let alone the industry. The people keeping her shop open are cigarette and cigar smokers over the age of 60. When they all die out and there's no customers left then it won't matter because she won't have her shop anymore. I would say that it's also because she doesn't seem to have any sort of usable knowledge about basic electronic technology, but actually I think that's no excuse for a business anymore since there's many people out there she could hire to organise that for her or teach her so she could manage it herself.
Brent

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein
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jogilli
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by jogilli »

well, I guess I'll come clean.. I purchase about 90% of my tobacco via the internet.. you just can't beat the deals, but living in Germany I do visit quit a bit of pipe shops and do purchase a tin (or bag in most cases) every time I go..

They let me rummage through the pipes.. check the details of the top makers and believe it or not, have actually provided me with some great recommendations.. I love McCranies Red Flake and the Kentucky leaf.. The proprietor of Tobaccum provided me with a tin of Maduro.. which is his version.. very close and becoming one of my favorites...B&M will eventually pass in about 10 years I think. An unfortunate event, as I love visiting them..

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UncleDraken
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by UncleDraken »

jogilli wrote:B&M will eventually pass in about 10 years I think. An unfortunate event, as I love visiting them..
Do you think that's really true for every one though? I mean I find it difficult to swallow when I think of JJ Fox of St. James' Street, London running out of business. That's the place where Churchill and Oscar Wilde bought their cigars and cigarettes. I would hope that they don't go altogether. Even having one shop for the nearest two or three towns worth of pipe smokers would be great if that would be enough business for them.
Brent

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein
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jogilli
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by jogilli »

simply put.. I hope not, but the no smoking legislation in Europe is getting even worse than that in the states. who would have figured that France would pass anything anti-smoking, but they did.. Germany did, the UK did.... all mainly based on cigs mind you, but the movement is still there.. unfortunately..

I found it funny as the pubs in the UK moved to non-smoking around 2005, when I lived there.. most of the guests hung out outside.. when I visit the Midland here in a few weeks for work I'm hoping the weather is good, as half the pub is outside.. nothing like a good pint and smoke.. even if I look like a moron sitting in the corner drawing out designs ;-)

ajems
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UncleDraken
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by UncleDraken »

jogilli wrote:simply put.. I hope not, but the no smoking legislation in Europe is getting even worse than that in the states. who would have figured that France would pass anything anti-smoking, but they did.. Germany did, the UK did.... all mainly based on cigs mind you, but the movement is still there.. unfortunately..

I found it funny as the pubs in the UK moved to non-smoking around 2005, when I lived there.. most of the guests hung out outside.. when I visit the Midland here in a few weeks for work I'm hoping the weather is good, as half the pub is outside.. nothing like a good pint and smoke.. even if I look like a moron sitting in the corner drawing out designs ;-)

ajems
It frustrates me that we get lumped into the same category as cigarette smokers, or for that matter, any type of health warning or insurance policy that doesn't take into account how much a person smokes. On average I won't smoke more than 3 bowls in a week. Surely the risk must be different between me and someone who smokes every day, or more likely multiples times in a day?

I agree, nothing like a pint and a smoke! Although I might trade that pint in for a whisky ;) Well, if you don't wanna look like a moron by yourself I'd be happy to marvel at your designs and make you a moron with company!
Brent

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein
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jogilli
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by jogilli »

I'll be in Oundle the week of 8 July... 10 July (Wednesday) another fellow is coming down .. ifn your around.. stop by.. I'll buy you a pint also.. they have a great Pale Ale at The Ship Inn .. one of my favorite places to stay..

alternately Ill be at the BPSC also in Newark.. if you come stop by and say hi.. I'll be the guy with the funny English accent... ;-)

james
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by RDPowell »

I live out in the sticks and the closest "Brick and Mortar" is over 100 miles away. There are some very small tobacco shops
but, they sell cigars & cigarettes mostly and don't want to carry anything I smoke. So with that said, I feel if they wish not to carry what you want there is no need in supporting them, there not kin. Now if there was a real Pipe Shop close by I surely would support it as long as
the prices were the same if not cheaper then what I've been getting on the internet. I believe that's only fair, why should I pay more just to
help a small shop owner out, when there not helping me. Just my miserable 2 cents.
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wdteipen
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Re: A question of Ethics

Post by wdteipen »

The only thing that may save B&M's in the future would be if the internet sale of tobacco products gets nixed which isn't entirely impossible. If that happens, you may well see a resurgence until the anti's kill that too.

One thing I see at the shops near me is that they aren't very good at keeping up with the times. A smart shop (of any kind really) would have an online presence in addition to a B&M. The most successful ones do just that. Take Iwan Reis, Smokingpipes, Cup O'Joes, Smokers Haven, etc. for example.
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